Item degradation and repairing - a simple house rule

[zedturtle]

In Zedturtle's "Theft of the Moon" playtest Craft ended up playing a central role, even though it wasn't written into the adventure. I think I might have spent Hope on it, even.

I believe you did, and it was totally worth it!

Yeah, it was one of the best things in the whole playtest, I almost wish I could write it in as an expected ending, but it just can't be expected to have a hero with the right skill-set and mind-set to do what Egil did and have it succeed.

P.S. Y'all will find out how well Egil succeeded in a little while...

[Glorelendil]

P.S. Y'all will find out how well Egil succeeded in a little while...

/cue ominous organ chords

[Woodclaw]

I'm not going into the merit of Craft vs any other ability since, for me, TOR is mostly about using the abilities in an unexpected way.

On the subject of item degradation, I think that the rule is interesting with a couple of caveats:

1. As a rule of thumb TOR is a game that skips over many details for the sake of the story (e.g. arrow count) so I'm not sure how much adding this rules would fit the game;
2. Shields seem kind of the ugly duckling of this system, every other item has different levels of degradation, whereas shields are a simple hit/miss affair.

I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to implement a more fluid system, but I've got nothing so far.

[Glorelendil]

Just FYI I started working on similar rules for my Conan port of the TOR rules (yes, seriously.) In Conan stories there are no magic weapons (for the most part) but in practically every story he picks up a new weapon. So you wouldn't want players to get too attached to particular weapons, and you want them to sometimes break. Here's what I came up with; it's admittedly a bit complicated and full of book-keeping for TOR, but basically it replaces Cultural Rewards and qualities:

1) Weapons have Quality rating from 1 to 6
2) Weapons also have a Condition rating, that cannot be higher than its Quality
2) Regardless of your skill, you can't roll more dice than the current Condition of your weapon. At zero it's "broken"
3) When rolling an Eye of Sauron on an attack, you then make an opposed roll using your weapon's Quality as the "skill", vs. a TN of 12 + your opponent's Attribute Level. On a failure it loses 1 Condition. On failure with an Eye it goes to Condition 0.
4) The Repair TN is 10 + (2 * Quality), or 20 + (2 * Quality) if the item is broken (Condition 0). Any success restores the weapon's Condition to its maximum value (that is, it's Quality)

Armor had the exact same rules, except that you roll when an opponent hits you with an Eye.

Oh, and when looking for a new weapon...on a battlefield or in an armoury, for example...you can roll your Craft skill to possibly increase the Quality of the weapon found. The idea being Craft expertise is equivalent to "an eye for quality". (I had a similar rule for Travel skill and picking horses.)

None of this is really appropriate to Middle Earth, but thought I'd share.

[Indur Dawndeath]

Hi all,
After reading this thread I have come up with the house rule I want to use. Thought I'd share.
I want it more simple, so either the weapon works or it don't. Either the armour is useful or it isn't. I know in reality the effect is more gradual, but the TOR system is not supporting a gradual degradation, like Rolemaster was. You are either weary or not. Misserable or not. Wounded or not.
So my system is this:

Item degradation
All items possessed by the players will be worn, unless the players maintain their equipment. Every time a Protection test fails, or in case of enemies succeeds with an EoS result, then the armour / helm or weapon is in jeopardy. Make a mark next to the item. This mark can be erased by a successful Craft TN14, if spares and tools can be obtained. Craft TN16 if either tools or spares are inadequate. Craft TN18 if neither tools nor spares are available. Only one test can be attempted while adventuring for each item.
If an item receives a second mark, then it is useless, and must be replaced or repaired in a proper workshop. This requires a Fellowship phase and is based on the Standard of living.
*A Rich person can replace all his items and help his fellowship replace 2 broken or damaged (marked) items.
*A Prosperous person can replace up to 2 broken Items and help his fellowship with 1 broken item
*A Martial person can only replace 2 items at home or 1 away from home. He can help his fellowship with 1 damaged (marked) item and only at home.
*A Frugal person can only replace 1 item and only at home

Broken quality items, require a successful Craft TN14 to repair. This test can be modified by the local craftsmen ability, if the service can be acquired.

Thank you for bringing this up! I think it is an excellent way to make Standard of Living mean something.
Cheers

[Glorelendil]

I applaud the effort to make it simple and binary, but "you can't use it" seems excessive. What if any rolls using that item (Attack rolls for weapons, Protection rolls for armor) are made as if Weary until it is repaired? That means that if you are actually Weary there's no penalty, but I'm ok with that.

[Indur Dawndeath]

I applaud the effort to make it simple and binary, but "you can't use it" seems excessive. What if any rolls using that item (Attack rolls for weapons, Protection rolls for armor) are made as if Weary until it is repaired? That means that if you are actually Weary there's no penalty, but I'm ok with that.

Yes that is a nice idea!
I actually don't think that the items will brake, because I think that the players will want to get rid of the "marks" as soon as they get them.
If they neglect to repair their equipment they will be taking a serious risk...
Could actually be fun to have them use a secondary weapon or a dagger once in a while!

But I'll think about it. Weary or completely broken...
Perhaps it will only break on the second mark if the Craft to remove the first mark was a failure with an EoS.

[Indur Dawndeath]

I think the this will be my revised house rule:

Item degradation
All items possessed by the players will be worn, unless the players maintain their equipment.
Every time a Protection test fails, or in case of enemies succeeds with an EoS result, then the armour / helm or weapon is in jeopardy. Make a mark next to the item.
A mark can be erased by a successful Craft TN14, if spares and tools can be obtained.
Craft TN16 if either tools or spares are inadequate.
Craft TN18 if neither tools nor spares are available.
Only one test can be attempted while adventuring for each item. If the Craft test fails with an EoS then the item will break and be useless when it receives the second mark. If the Craft was a normal failure, then the item will be severely damaged when it receives the second mark. From now on all tests with that item is rolled with 2 Feat dies and you have to take the worst.
If an item have two "marks" or is broken, then it must be replaced at a market town or repaired in a proper workshop. This requires a Fellowship phase and is based on the Standard of living.
*A Rich person can replace all his items and help his fellowship replace 2 broken or damaged (marked) items.
*A Prosperous person can replace up to 2 broken Items and help his fellowship with 1 broken item
*A Martial person can only replace 2 items at home or 1 away from home. He can help his fellowship with 1 damaged (marked) item and only at home.
*A Frugal person can only replace 1 item and only at home

Broken quality items, require a successful Craft TN14 to repair during a fellowship phase. This test can be modified by the local craftsmen ability, if the service can be acquired.

Now you can be both Weary and have a damaged weapon... A very bad situation, but the weapon is not completely useless unless you are very unlucky.

Cheers

[beckett]

I've been using a similar house rule in my game...

ARMOUR DAMAGE AND REPAIR
Armour may be damaged during combat, directly affecting its capability of protecting its wearer. Whether a Protection Test is successful or not if the Feat Die results in an EYE being rolled, then the armour's rating is reduced by 1D. This can only occur up to three times; therefore a mail hauberk may only be reduced in total from 5D to 2D.

Characters can repair any damaged armour during a Fellowship Phase by selecting the Repair Armour undertaking.

NEW UNDERTAKING: REPAIR ARMOUR
This undertaking may be selected during any Fellowship Phase. Appropriate equipment and materials should be present and if so, any damaged armour is fully repaired on a successful Craft roll (TN 14).

This Undertaking may also be applied to broken shields and weapons or any other piece of equipment the Loremaster deems appropriate.

A bit more straightforward and simpler than yours, Michebugio, but it seems to be working okay.

Hi Rich

What happens to a Player-hero wearing a Leather Corslet (2d) after their armor is damaged 3 times? Do they just roll the Feat Die on Protections Tests until they can have their Leather Corslet repaired?