Hobbits and bows

[Terisonen]

I am seeking enlightenment from those of you who master the lore of Middle Earth

Have been the Hobbits ever referred as using bows? and, going a bit further, has Tolkien even depicted Hobbits as being skilled bowmen (or bowhobbits)?

Thanks

P.S: Yes, I am trying to figure out where Francesco got his idea for the Fair Shot virtue.

Well, the Shire sent bowmen to Fornost to confront the Witch King. They were probably highly capable.

Not for sure, there is no canon proof of this, as I remember...

[Falenthal]

Bear in mind that with really low body scores and low Injury their high accuracy still doesn't turn them into killing machines.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but they're far better at accuracy than elves (without spending Hope!), and elves are only 2 points better at damage (nothing better at Injury).

I don't really dislike how Hobbits are made (just the thing with them being at Short Sword than at Dagger/Throwing Stones, but it's a minor thing), but I don't quite like them when compared to elves. Or better said, I don't like elves when compared to Hobbits.

[Falenthal]

has Tolkien even depicted Hobbits as being skilled bowmen (or bowhobbits)?

Well, the Shire sent bowmen to Fornost to confront the Witch King. They were probably highly capable.

Not for sure, there is no canon proof of this, as I remember...

There's canon for the bowmen sent to Fornost. What we have no proof is of their capabilities.

[Terisonen]

That's what Hobbit say... Not other.

[zedturtle]

Well, with Ruins of the North, the canonicity of the Hobbit archers has been settled, as far as the official game material goes.

But, yes, it's supposition that the Hobbits sent their best folks to help the King that granted them their lands, not warriors of middling capability.

[Yepesnopes]

Among other things, this, from "Concerning Hobbits":

"They (Hobbits) shot well with the bow, for they were keen-eyed and sure at the mark."

Francesco

Thanks for the quote. At least we have something from the book stating that they "shot well", not a very strong remark, but something at least. Actually, I have seen that the quote goes on:

They shot well with the bow, for they were keen-eyed and sure at the mark. Not only with bows and arrows. If any Hobbit stooped for a stone, it was well to get quickly under cover, as all trespassing beasts knew very well.

Well, with Ruins of the North, the canonicity of the Hobbit archers has been settled, as far as the official game material goes.

What do you mean?
I don't have Ruins of the North yet.

[Glorelendil]

Then you really don't want to know. Forget you read that.

[Deadmanwalking]

Bear in mind that with really low body scores and low Injury their high accuracy still doesn't turn them into killing machines.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but they're far better at accuracy than elves (without spending Hope!), and elves are only 2 points better at damage (nothing better at Injury).

I don't really dislike how Hobbits are made (just the thing with them being at Short Sword than at Dagger/Throwing Stones, but it's a minor thing), but I don't quite like them when compared to elves. Or better said, I don't like elves when compared to Hobbits.

I agree with this (well, not the dagger/stones thing, but the Elf comparison). But given that Elves are below everyone else at archery as well (or everyone but Men of the Lake anyway) the solution seems to be to fix elves, not mess with Hobbits.

[Bocephas]

I am new to this forum, but I have spent a lot of time looking over the rule book and the proposed house rules for this game. One issue I have not seen raised is why hobbits are allowed to use the same size bow as elves.

It seems to me standard bows should be pushed up to Enc 2 and a new category of bow should be created - a small bow with Enc 1, Damage 4, Injury 12.

Something like this:
Small Bow - Enc 1, Dam 4, Injury 12
Standard Bow - Enc 2, Dam 5, Injury 14
Great Bow - Enc 3, Dam 7, Injury 16

If injury 12 is considered too low, you could make small bow injury 14 and push standard bow injury up to 15. Although this would break the pattern of injury rating changing by 2's.

If hobbits were limited to these small bows, it would help the hobbit vs elf bowman issue and reduce the power of fair shot. I just don't think hobbits should be allowed to use a bow that's standard size for men and elves.

This change would also help the Enc 2 Spear vs Enc 1 Bow issue in RAW. Now normal bows would be Enc 2.

I don't see an issue with dwarves and standard bows. In my opinion, they would use shorter, stouter, thicker bows with the same power as standard bows.

While I am at it, I was also considering a house rule that all bows come with a dozen arrows included in their Enc. Each dozen you carry beyond that would add 1 Enc.

I would also like to find a good way to distinguish small/standard bows and great bows. Maybe say that small bows and standard bows only need 1 defender, rather than 2. I think this would make them function more like woodland/skirmish weapons, while the Great Bow would be more of a "line of battle" weapon.

[Glorelendil]

Welcome, Bocephas!

I am new to this forum, but I have spent a lot of time looking over the rule book and the proposed house rules for this game. One issue I have not seen raised is why hobbits are allowed to use the same size bow as elves.

It seems to me standard bows should be pushed up to Enc 2 and a new category of bow should be created - a small bow with Enc 1, Damage 4, Injury 12.

Something like this:
Small Bow - Enc 1, Dam 4, Injury 12
Standard Bow - Enc 2, Dam 5, Injury 14
Great Bow - Enc 3, Dam 7, Injury 16

If injury 12 is considered too low, you could make small bow injury 14 and push standard bow injury up to 15. Although this would break the pattern of injury rating changing by 2's.

If hobbits were limited to these small bows, it would help the hobbit vs elf bowman issue and reduce the power of fair shot. I just don't think hobbits should be allowed to use a bow that's standard size for men and elves.

This change would also help the Enc 2 Spear vs Enc 1 Bow issue in RAW. Now normal bows would be Enc 2.

I don't see an issue with dwarves and standard bows. In my opinion, they would use shorter, stouter, thicker bows with the same power as standard bows.

This has been commented on before. But it seems to be an intentional game design decision to mostly level the differences between the various cultures, not only in combat but also in common skills. If you were to intentionally weaken Hobbits even further in combat I think you would then need to boost them in other ways.

While I am at it, I was also considering a house rule that all bows come with a dozen arrows included in their Enc. Each dozen you carry beyond that would add 1 Enc.

Arrow-counting has also been discussed a bunch, and the consensus is that this sort of bookkeeping is contrary to the spirit of TOR, and should be reserved for when it matters to the story. Otherwise it's just bookkeeping, like counting gold, silver, and copper coins...which has also been dispensed with.

I would also like to find a good way to distinguish small/standard bows and great bows. Maybe say that small bows and standard bows only need 1 defender, rather than 2. I think this would make them function more like woodland/skirmish weapons, while the Great Bow would be more of a "line of battle" weapon.

That's an interesting idea, although I would suggest that the idea proposed by others, that Great Bows suffer a hindrance penalty from dense woods, tunnels/hallways, spider webs, etc., combined with the encumbrance difference, might be enough to balance out the two weapons a bit.