Toward a Theory of Weapon Stats

[Falenthal]

To build a "versatile" weapon according to the two precedents (Longsword and Long-hafted Axe) with the calculator you have to:
1) Build a 1H version with Balance: 0
2) Build a 2H version that has higher encumbrance, damage, and injury and Balance: 0
3) Average the Encumbrance, then average the Damage for 2H use.

Thanks! I'll try something in the next days. Just for fun, at least.

[Otaku-sempai]

It make sense from a realistic point of view. My only concern with this groups is that (Hammers) hasn't got any presence in the existing cultures. Maybe it could be a starting option for Blue Mountain Dwarves?
Also, as for the name of the different hammers, it could just be Hammer, Warhammer and Maul. It seems easier, doesn't it?

That depends on what you mean by a Hammer. If you mean the carpenter's tool or a smith's hammer/mallet then I don't think it should be included in a the weapon group (not enough reach; although we might be able to make a slightly better argument for the heavier smith's hammer). And a military hammer and a warhammer would be the same thing, wouldn't it? In any case, culturally, I see obvious connections between hammers and Dwarves through both mining and smithing.

How about this? Weapon Group: (Hammers)

Blacksmith's hammer (tool)
Damage: 3
Edge: 10
Injury: 14
Encumbrance: 0
Called Shot: None
Usable by Hobbits

Hammer
Damage: 3
Edge: 10
Injury: 14
Encumbrance: 1
Called Shot: None
Usable by Hobbits; Can be thrown (20/60)

Warhammer
Damage: 5 (1h)/7 (2h)
Edge: 10
Injury: 16 (1h)/18 (2h)
Encumbrance: 3
Called Shot: Break Shield
Can be used with one or two hands

Maul
Damage: 9
Edge: 10
Injury: 18
Encumbrance: 4
Called Shot: Break Shield
Two-handed, Close Combat

Leave the blacksmith's hammer a bit underpowered because its intended use is not as a weapon. The Spears group shows that we don't actually need three examples; the blacksmith's hammer is added as an option to round out the group.

EDIT: I've added the Hammer (Light hammer in D&D 5e) from the Adventures in Middle-earth Player's Guide.

[Mando]

Speaking of weapons and house rules, anybody found a way to make daggers attractive ? Say to stab someone in a dark alley or throw a blade in the eye of some bad guy.
According to RAW it seems to me Great Axe or similar is the weapon of choice to kill fast whatever the situation.

I think I saw somewhere the idea of giving Piercing Blow as Called Shot to a Dagger, this is an improvement at least to try and kill unarmored weak stuff. But still I think a hero will still rather use his big weapon to remove the orc sentinel.

[zedturtle]

Speaking of weapons and house rules, anybody found a way to make daggers attractive ? Say to stab someone in a dark alley or throw a blade in the eye of some bad guy.
According to RAW it seems to me Great Axe or similar is the weapon of choice to kill fast whatever the situation.

I think I saw somewhere the idea of giving Piercing Blow as Called Shot to a Dagger, this is an improvement at least to try and kill unarmored weak stuff. But still I think a hero will still rather use his big weapon to remove the orc sentinel.

I have a player who likes unusual builds and has a dagger as his primary weapon. Once he'd one upgrading it, it's going to be a 0 Enc. Short Sword, essentially. But it's a conscious choice on his part, and he is well aware of his suboptimal choices. Perhaps he'll be lucky enough to find a magical dagger, which would help make his investment more worthwhile.

As far as using daggers to kill unarmoured sentries... well it doesn't seem very Tolkienesque. I might, depending on the situation, allow a hero with a good plan and a good reason to simply narrate success, especially if they took on Shadow to represent the repercussions of killing someone in cold blood.

Also... if the heroes ever did find themselves in such a circumstance and elected to use non-lethal means against such foes, I'd be generous in my interpretations of the rules. Extra bonus dice for the surprise, allowing inventive skill use, etc.

[aramis]

Speaking of weapons and house rules, anybody found a way to make daggers attractive ? Say to stab someone in a dark alley or throw a blade in the eye of some bad guy.
According to RAW it seems to me Great Axe or similar is the weapon of choice to kill fast whatever the situation.

I think I saw somewhere the idea of giving Piercing Blow as Called Shot to a Dagger, this is an improvement at least to try and kill unarmored weak stuff. But still I think a hero will still rather use his big weapon to remove the orc sentinel.

I think, as an assassination weapon, it falls outside the normal combat scope...

If I'm LMing, you can, outside of combat, sneak up on the orc (stealth vs his awareness), you can wound him with a successful dagger roll at TN12... maybe more if he's exceptional. But it's regular combat and you're armed with a knife if you blow it...

But, a knife is often painful, but often not telling, in armored combats. Which is what the combat system tends to represent best.

If one wants to add realism rolls, edge of a dagger versus unarmored humanoids probably should be bonused to a 9 or so, but once armored, the <G> feels right.

Then again, in a number of historical styles, a large dagger is used in the off hand by those without shields... Including some flavors of Ni-Ten (Kenjutsu, the school of Musashi), a couple middle-eastern styles, and the scots (where it isn't documented in writing until the 16th C, but in illustrations earlier, sometimes in the hand holding the targe, with a backsword in the other)... but two weapon styles are not covered in TOR.

[Falenthal]

I think I saw somewhere the idea of giving Piercing Blow as Called Shot to a Dagger, this is an improvement at least to try and kill unarmored weak stuff.

I've given both to Dagger and Short Sword the Called Shot "Piercing Blow" (in the case of the Short Sword, it is instead of Disarm).

In your situation, you could ask the character to succeed at a Stealth roll, as if ambushing the Orc as per the normal Ambush rules for Combat.
If the Ambush was succesful, the hero has the initiative.
The character will roll for Preliminary bonus dice normally.
Skip Opening Volleys, as they should be too close to fire anything.
Enter Combat: the hero can declare a Called Shot with his Dagger, probably using one of his Bonus dice (if available) to increase the chances of a 6.
If succesful, that's a Piercing blow to the Orc and a possibility of instant kill.
If not, or if the Protection roll succeeded, the Orc is aware of the attack and counter-attacks.

This way, you can use the normal Combat rules without any house-rules and still simulate the silent kill.

And don't forget to give the hero his Shadow point(s) just for trying...

[Mando]

Actually the remark is true for the opposition too, so I was not really thinking of the "shadow act" debate. If a very bad guy, an assassin from corrupted lands or whatever, sneaks on a gentle hero with a dagger instead of some big black axe or similar, according to RAW this is guaranteed hilarity. Up until the dagger is seen to be poisoned, obviously, but still it stresses the point that without some form of powering up daggers are not worth using.

Thanks a lot for the Piercing Blow approach, this is what I was thinking of.

[Falenthal]

In fact, even using this rules for silent kills, an assassin would do far better ninja-ing his victims with a Great Spear: there's no hindrance in the rules for stealth approaching with it and it has a higher Injury rating.

[Indur Dawndeath]

In fact, even using this rules for silent kills, an assassin would do far better ninja-ing his victims with a Great Spear: there's no hindrance in the rules for stealth approaching with it and it has a higher Injury rating.

I would probably rule that the player could attack with whatever weapon he wants, but the only advantage would be Battle dice OR he could try a skill roll with Stealth armed with a dagger, requiring a great success to kill silently.

Cheers

[Rich H]

In fact, even using this rules for silent kills, an assassin would do far better ninja-ing his victims with a Great Spear: there's no hindrance in the rules for stealth approaching with it and it has a higher Injury rating.

Hmmm, not sure. To land such a blow I'd say and assassin has to get in close which is restrictive and therefore there's potential for an LM to apply the Moderately Hindered condition ("Against a wall, in a corner, obliged
to fight in cramped quarters") or just rule that only small weapons like a dagger can be used to effectively do such a thing. As always, I'd go with what makes your game more interesting and fun, personally, so this should likely vary from group to group.