What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

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Otaku-sempai
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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by Otaku-sempai » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:36 pm

Glorelendil wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:09 pm
Given the choice between more content for Arnor or Gondor, I would choose the former. More adventures! More interesting LMCs! More story hooks! More artwork!
Um, how about both more Arnor AND Gondor? This isn't an either/or choice, though I wouldn't mind seeing a guide for Western Eriador & Lindon before we reach Gondor. And I'm not sure that I would argue that Western Eriador has more interesting Loremaster Characters or adventure hooks within Tolkien's established legendarium (how many Player-heroes are going to know about the Seeing-stones that were sent to the bottom of the Ice Bay of Forochel?) I am relying on the game designers to introduce interesting new LMCs.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by Otaku-sempai » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:40 pm

torus wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:32 pm
I imagine three books:

Northeastern Gondor, land of the Sun and Moon
Anorien, Ithilien (North and South), Lossarnach, Minas Tirith in detail, ruined Osgiliath, Minas Morgul. Plenty of political intrigue in the city, and subterfuge in a region under the shadow (Ithilien).

Southern Gondor, land of rivers and the sea
Lebennin, Dor-en-Ernil, Belfalas, Tolfalas, Harondor; the cities of Pelargir and Dol Amroth, and towns including Linhir, the elves of Edhellond, and Ethring. Sea battles and piracy, hidden coves and harbours, merchants and smugglers.

Western Gondor, land of stone and shore
Lamedon, the Ered Nimrais, Pinnath Gelin, Anfalas, Andrast and Druwaith Iaur. Settlements such as Calembel and Erech. The Pukel men, the ancient mountains and the heart of Gondor, Numenorean ruins and the wild coast.
I'm not sure we would actually need three region guides for Gondor (and my wallet agrees), but it's an interesting option. And your break-down is very logical.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by torus » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:51 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:40 pm
torus wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:32 pm
I imagine three books:

Northeastern Gondor, land of the Sun and Moon
Anorien, Ithilien (North and South), Lossarnach, Minas Tirith in detail, ruined Osgiliath, Minas Morgul. Plenty of political intrigue in the city, and subterfuge in a region under the shadow (Ithilien).

Southern Gondor, land of rivers and the sea
Lebennin, Dor-en-Ernil, Belfalas, Tolfalas, Harondor; the cities of Pelargir and Dol Amroth, and towns including Linhir, the elves of Edhellond, and Ethring. Sea battles and piracy, hidden coves and harbours, merchants and smugglers.

Western Gondor, land of stone and shore
Lamedon, the Ered Nimrais, Pinnath Gelin, Anfalas, Andrast and Druwaith Iaur. Settlements such as Calembel and Erech. The Pukel men, the ancient mountains and the heart of Gondor, Numenorean ruins and the wild coast.
I'm not sure we would actually need three region guides for Gondor (and my wallet agrees), but it's an interesting option. And your break-down is very logical.


I'm certain we don't actually need any of this stuff to be honest :) But I'll probably pick up whatever comes out, and in that case, I'd rather something with substantial detail and focus than a superficial overview of too large a region. Gondor is at least as large as Arnor , if you include all its territories, and it looks the latter will take at least three books.

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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by Otaku-sempai » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:39 am

torus wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:51 pm
I'm certain we don't actually need any of this stuff to be honest :) But I'll probably pick up whatever comes out, and in that case, I'd rather something with substantial detail and focus than a superficial overview of too large a region. Gondor is at least as large as Arnor , if you include all its territories, and it looks the latter will take at least three books.
Heck, it looks like Eriador (and Lindon?) could get as many as four region books if the Shire receives its own, separate volume as with Bree. The Shire might not have a new Heroic Culture but it could compensate by presenting three cultural variants: Fallowhides, Harfoots, and Stoors.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by Terisonen » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:44 am

Really intersting spot in Gondor are Osgiliath, Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul, Ithilien North and South, and the coast as they can be targeted by some raider of Umbar. Men of Dol Amroth may deserve a culture by their own, but i'm not sure they will go adventuring since they don't appear to move by nature, and appear really to be on the margin of middle earth, like elves from Lindon.
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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by torus » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:32 pm

Terisonen wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:44 am
Men of Dol Amroth may deserve a culture by their own, but i'm not sure they will go adventuring since they don't appear to move by nature, and appear really to be on the margin of middle earth, like elves from Lindon.
I assume you say that based on their non-appearance as adventurers in Tolkien's writings. However the same could have been said of Woodmen, Lake men and others from Rhovanion.

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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by Otaku-sempai » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:08 pm

How much do we actually know about the organization and structure of Gondor's navy? Pelargir is depicted as being approximately 70 miles upriver from the Bay of Belfalas, and I don't reckon that the main fleet was based as far north as Dol Amroth or the old Elven harbor of Edhellond. Was the fleet based at Pelargir? There are no other harbors shown at the southern end of the Bay. Was there a fortress and docks on the isle of Tolfalas? It would seem remiss to leave it unfortified.
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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by Terisonen » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:02 pm

torus wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:32 pm
Terisonen wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:44 am
Men of Dol Amroth may deserve a culture by their own, but i'm not sure they will go adventuring since they don't appear to move by nature, and appear really to be on the margin of middle earth, like elves from Lindon.
I assume you say that based on their non-appearance as adventurers in Tolkien's writings. However the same could have been said of Woodmen, Lake men and others from Rhovanion.
At least, they are at the heart of the geography used by C7 for theirs adventures. Lindon and Dol Amroth are at thr extreem West of Middle-earth and nothing happen here in whatever Tolkien writed about Third Age, save perhaps in Lindon for the flight of Arvedui. And he even goes north, not west. That's not that I don't want Elve adventurer from Lindon or Knight from Dol amroth, but they're will be really out of their home in Rhovanion or East Gondor. But after all, all adventurer are unique.
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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by Otaku-sempai » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:50 pm

Terisonen wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:02 pm
At least, they are at the heart of the geography used by C7 for theirs adventures. Lindon and Dol Amroth are at thr extreem West of Middle-earth and nothing happen here in whatever Tolkien writed about Third Age, save perhaps in Lindon for the flight of Arvedui. And he even goes north, not west. That's not that I don't want Elve adventurer from Lindon or Knight from Dol amroth, but they're will be really out of their home in Rhovanion or East Gondor. But after all, all adventurer are unique.
(Emphasis above added by me.) You disregard Christopher Tolkien's note in his father's essay "The Drúedain" (Unfinished Tales) that explains: "A marginal jotting states that after the Battles of the Fords of Isen it was found that many Drúedain did indeed survive in the Drúwaith Iaur [Old Pukel-land], for they came forth from the caves where they dwelt to attack remnants of Saruman's forces that had been driven away southwards." He continues: "In a passage cited on p. 374 there is a reference to tribes of "Wild Men", fishers and fowlers, on the coasts of Enedwaith, who were akin in race and speech to the Drúedain of Anórien." I think, though, that the TOR developers might have ignored the suggestion that the Wild Men of Enedwaith were related to the Woses of the Druadan Forest.

Also, Dol Amroth is not at "the [extreme] West of Middle-earth," as you state. It is, in fact, located in the central region of Gondor; its position in the Bay of Belfalas suggests that it has a substantial harbor and docks that probably support a large variety of ships and boats including naval vessels belonging to Gondor's fleet. It needed those ships to guard against the possibility of attack from Corsairs or other sea-going enemies.

My point is that the region of western Gondor did see some activity during the War of the Ring. Besides, one of the reasons to become an adventurer is to venture beyond the lands of one's home. A Hero from Dol Amroth, the Grey Havens or the Halls of the Dwarves isn't going to just stay home twiddling his or her thumbs. At the same time, an adventure might still begin at such a location.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by torus » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:43 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:08 pm
How much do we actually know about the organization and structure of Gondor's navy? Pelargir is depicted as being approximately 70 miles upriver from the Bay of Belfalas, and I don't reckon that the main fleet was based as far north as Dol Amroth or the old Elven harbor of Edhellond. Was the fleet based at Pelargir? There are no other harbors shown at the southern end of the Bay. Was there a fortress and docks on the isle of Tolfalas? It would seem remiss to leave it unfortified.
Don't have access to my books and don't know offhand if there is much specifically about the Gondorian navy, but have always assumed its home base was at Pelargir. Also I would imagine Tolfalas is garrisoned by Gondor during periods of strength, at least at strategic points, but in the late TA this may have been largely withdrawn. There is probably still a Gondorian presence but perhaps also havens and coves used for pirates, smugglers and even corsairs.

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