A question has come up in my game. If a player rolls exceptionally well on a combat roll can that player get an Advancement Point under the Vocation Skill Group?

You mean when you roll Battle? Sure.

Not a roll using the Battle skill. I mean a combat roll, using one of their weapon skills.

I don't know where you'd put it, but I have given some of my players advancement points for exceptional rolls in combat/interesting narration. It's only happened once or twice, and I'm 99.99% certain it's a houserule I came up with on the fly.

I've done this and it seemed to make sense to put it in the Vocation Skill Group. But I wasn't sure if it was the correct thing to do under the rules as written for the awarding of Advancement Points. I've no problem with house rules. Just wanted to clarify one way or the other.

No, and it makes sense not to. Since Weapon Skills aren't raised with Advancement Points, they shouldn't be used to gain any.

Had not thought of it in that light. Makes total sense. Thank you, Doc.

What about Experience Points Doc? I never thought of it that way either...

Experience Points are given out at the end of each session. Players can use XP to increase Weapon Skills and buy ranks in Wisdom or Valour (thus getting a reward or a virtue).

So, he is saying that since weapon skills are not raised by Advancement Points they should not be used to gain any. Advancement Points are for the Common Skills and should be gained by the use of the Common Skills (along with traits).

Weapons Skills are raised by XP
Common Skills are raised by AP.

I just had a thought. What if the player has the Enemy-Lore trait and has chosen Goblin. The player is in combat with a goblin makes an extraordinary roll with his weapon skill and Invokes his Enemy-Lore: Goblin trait.

The rules do say:

"If a player succeeds at an action he may invoke a Trait to gain an Advancement point: if the Trait is deemed to be pertinent to the action, the player earns the point and checks the appropriate box."

This seems to be allowed, yes? Where would the AP go? Vocation?

Uh... no idea..

Also, I should have been clearer. What I was getting at was that if APs are used to improve Common Skills, and are awarded for using the Skills, could you not award Experience Points for impressive combat narrative/rolls/etc as they are the corresponding 'currency'?

I think one of the XP awards covers that, but that is 1 point for either the session or adventure. If it were 1 XP per awesome thing, you would have some crazy fast advancement.

An advancement point to put where though?

And by your logic you could invoke Enemy-Lore to auto hit an enemy. Which I'm fairly sure is not what is intended by invoking traits.

Combat skill advancement is already covered by xp. You get them for significant progression towards your goal and for doing something noteworthy. Either can be part of combats - if, and only if, those combats bring you significantly closer to your goal or you do something especially heroic or clever. You don't improve your combat skill just by fighting, in other words. It has to be combat in service to the story.

See this related topic I started about awarding XP for fights, that might be relevant here:
http://cubicle7.clicdev.com/f/index.php?tr...&showtopic=3497

The rules say and I quote:

"If a player succeeds at an action he may invoke a Trait to gain an Advancement point: if the Trait is deemed to be pertinent to the action, the player earns the point and checks the appropriate box."

So, no, I'm not talking about invoking a trait to score an auto hit. The text clearly sates, "If a player succeeds at an action" (meaning the player has rolled the dice and bested the TN) "he may invoke a trait to gain an Advancement Point."

Example: The player rolls the dice and scores a hit against the Goblin. The player then says, "I would like to invoke my Enemy Lore: Goblin for an Advancement Point please."

This seems to be allowed with the rules as written. If I am incorrect please point me to the relevant text. If I am correct, where does the player mark the Awarded AP? In the Vocation Skill Group?

Reading the section from where the quote comes, it seems clear that an "action" is meant as something that requires a Common Skill roll. It seems to me that, even if it isn't written explicitly, combat rolls are something different. Different skills, different rules for setting the TN, different experience points...

I also don't think that you can invoke an Enemy-Lore trait as something relevant to hitting stuff with a sword. It would feel more appropriate to invoke Enemy-Lore for Battle rolls, meaning you're using your knowledge to gain battle advantages.

P 148 ot the Adventurer's Book talks about actions - which are resolved by rolling common skills.

Although in defense of Beckett's point, P 157 talks about actions in relation to combat. ie Action Resolution.

Hmmm.

Yes, but attacks are consistently referred to as attacks. I would award AP for good rolls on combat tasks like rallying companions, for example.

@OP - Ultimately you can do whatever you want. A common sense reading of the rules says that Traits are linked to Common Skills and not Weapon Skills and therefore don't give AP for just whacking something with a sword. If you're desperate for a RAW explanation you can find it in the fact that the phrase "appropriate box" clearly refers to the Common Skill Groups, to which the Weapon Skills don't belong. They don't have such a thing, therefore there's nowhere to put any APs someone might claim. But, again, it's your game. Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law.

Thank you, Ovid. I agree with you and am satisfied.

Beckett

p.30 of Loremaster's Book on 'Awarding Advancement Points':

"If a player succeeds at an action he may invoke a Trait to gain an Advancement Point: if the Trait is deemed to be pertinent to the action, the player earns the point and checks the appropriate box"

In my view invoking Enemy-lore is not pertinent as the player was using a Weapon skill - if this player had, however, rolled Battle initially, however, he could certainly invoke the Trait after his Battle roll. I may change my mind if the player roleplays using his Enemy-lore Trait to good effect to explain why he thinks he should get an Advancement Point.

The most important line on p.30: "It is the Loremaster's duty to judge whether a hero deserves an advancement point or not, even though players are free to ask for a reward when they feel they their characters have achieved something meaningful, or have learned something in failing to do so".

My advice to my players - roleplay it and you are more likely to get it!

Robin S.