I will probably be running my group through TOR in the next few months, and i have been taking in the rules.

One thing that is not covered is how the rules come to the various stats for Adversarys. For example, how is Endurance calcualated in relation to Attribute Level? Do any Special Abilities affect Endurance or Hate scores?

Has anyone figured out a formula, based on the Adversaries given? Or are they just eyeballed, with no real rhyme or reason.

Thanks

You raise a question that also troubles me, & I'll be curious to read the responses that you get.

So far, I'm just tweaking the stats from TfW & such, converting them into my LM characters/creatures, but that obviously doesn't give us enough foes for a long-term chronicle.

I cannot recall anyone coming up with a formula for Adversary creation. I'm not even sure anyone even took a look. As far as I know all of the fan-created Adversaries were simply eye-balled.

There's guideline information in the LM book on pages 25 to 27 for setting Atribute Levels, Skill Ratings, and Endurance. These relate to NPCs from the free peoples so there would be some work to do when creating Orcs and Evil Men but I'd personally use what's there as a guide along with comparisons to already created creatures within the LM book and adventures. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

It'd be nice (though not a necessity) to see some guidance notes for making up Creatures though as, for example, there is a massive range in the Endurance of various Orcs so it isn't a simple solution of taking a base rating and adding attribute level to it (like it is for creating NPCs).

Perhaps Francesco just made stuff up? It seemed to work well!

Garn, didn't you make this:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/TOR%20XP%...ines%20v1_4.pdf

???

... People could at least use it to build creatures that provide a challenge from a correct XP basis if they're looking for some tighter guidelines than just 'make crap up and go with what looks good and feels right'!

All the adversaries I made were just eyeballed. I don't really think TOR is the kind of game where you need hard and fast rules for building adversaries.

Rich H,
Yes, I did create that paper and I also thought about referencing it here. You're correct that the article you referenced does give you some means of trying to figure out relative balance and might therefore be "better than nothing", but I really don't think it meets the OP's request.

I chose not mention it because that paper is intended more for group interaction (PCs vs Adversaries) to create equivalent strength encounters. In this way encounters can be tested to make sure no side is markedly superior.

Focusing this idea on an individual creature places this effort out of context. Taken by itself all new creatures are balanced regardless of having absolute min or absolute max stats, skills, abilities, equipment, etc.

Further, when the resulting creature is not compared against something else — PC(s) or Adversary(ies) — it's strength cannot be determined. This new creature could be pathetically weak or phenomenally strong. The target this new creature is compared against helps determine it's real strength within the campaign.

Also note that the comparison is going to be relative. More, stronger, or wider selection of combatants (ie, synergies) changes the numbers. Whether PCs or Adversaries, a larger group vs a smaller group is generally going to skew the results in the larger party's favor. Any disparity can become a marked advantage.

That's what I think makes it relevant. Relating it to an XP amount gives it its reference of strength - eg, useful/challenging against PC of x XP value. I think people interested in the subject of this thread will get value out of the document. It may not be exactly what they want/need but it will provide a degree of usefulness. That's why I think it merited a mention at least.

Thanks all!

It seems that there has been no 'formula' for creating adversaries, in regards to Endurance, Hate, and how special abilities affect them.

Huh, I never thought about it that way. Guess I had forgotten the days of olde with D&D and XP being commensurate with level.

Yeah, when I read it I thought "Huh, CL level for TOR enemies. Interesting...". So, yeah, it seemed obvious to me. It's not going to solve every problem, CL level in D&D didn't after all, but I do think its an extra tool that people could use if they wanted.