So if our heroes (5 of em) are overwhelmed by lets say 20+ goblins and orcs, they cant use the Rearward stance. So what happens when the 5 goblin archers starts to rain their arrows over our heroes? Is there no way for the Companions to get to the archers? as they are engaged in Close combat.


/Khamul

I'd say no, not until the heroes manage to whittle the orc numbers down until they can have someone in rearward to rain their own ranged fire down.

I would allow it, but it would take some description on the player's part and maybe a roll to accomplish.

This is one of those cases where terrain is key. Most rpg fights don't take place in empty fields, but are treated like they do by both the gm and players (and sometimes the rules).

I'd go along with DoctheWeasel's suggestions and allow an attempt to get to the archers based upon the terrain and some kind of manoeuvre/action in order to accomplish it.

If the heroes got an very advantage spot, then yes, but if they dont I would say no...

I have to say that this was the one rule that really had me saying "WHAT?" I can see what they are trying to replicate here, but the execution just doesn't make sense...IMO. I think it would make more sense to have a rule that states bows can be used until the archer is engaged in H-to-H combat; he then can either retreat behind his comrades for protection or draw another weapon (ie the way archers were used in battle). But, then I don't think the bow is a very potent weapon in TOR to begin with, certainly not on the scale as in the books. I don't think the bow armed elf in our group has felled an enemy combatant, yet using his bow.

Anyway, to get back on topic; I would say they should be able to return fire in this case.

I don't think that's the question. I believe the OP was asking for opinions as to whether any PCs could get to the archers and attack them in hand-to-hand - which is why people are either responding with a "yes, if the make a manoeuvre/action" or "no, not until they've thinned the ranks of the orcs as there's simply too many of them".

Funny enough, bows see really heavy use in my game, and the deadliest archer is the halfling with the Reward bow, (I forget what it is called). With the double feat die and choose rolls, he gets a lot of peircing blows, even if his base damage is weak. Granted the Beorning with the giant killing spear pretty much one shots everything he hits, so maybed everyone is extra deadly in my group.

I would let the player get him (supposing the terrain allows such an action) if he provided a nice description and succeed a battle or an athletics check.

Another question that i have concerning ranged combat: If a player in rearward stance got a mellee opponent (lets say from the special ability of the spiders) is he forced to change his stance in the next round or he retains his rearward chance and can still shoot with his bow?

"So if our heroes (5 of em) are overwhelmed by lets say 20+ goblins and orcs, they cant use the Rearward stance. "

I read this part of the statement to mean that the party had at least one archer in it, and as they were not able to use rearward stance could not shoot at the opposing Goblin arhers. In this case I say "yes, the party should be able to shoot back."

However, if the original question was how does a group of PC already engaged in CQB get to the goblin archers? Then that is different; to which I would say the PCs would have to launch a co ordinated attack aimed at breaking the offensive line and then get to the archers.

"Another question that i have concerning ranged combat: If a player in rearward stance got a mellee opponent (lets say from the special ability of the spiders) is he forced to change his stance in the next round or he retains his rearward chance and can still shoot with his bow?"

I would say he remains in the Rearward Stance, but would have to defend himself using melee combat. Once he dispatches his opponent then he can return to firing.

There was a thread on this a while ago. The enemy gets their melee attack in that rpund and then the flow of battle sweeps them apart. The hate point spend is just for that round.

Great! Thanks for the clarification...

Thread ref: http://cubicle7.clicdev.com/f/index.php?tr...&showtopic=3958

The heroes should use their Opening Volleys to aim for the orc archers.

Failing that, the thing you have to consider is how are 4 heroes holding up 15+ orcs so that the 5th hero can safely use his bow to pick off the archers.

Now good use of terrain might allow it but out in the open there is no way 4 guys can engage 15+ and not allow any past them, nor can they plow past them to get to the archers in melee, they are seriously outnumbered.

One idea I had was maybe letting the PCs spend thier bonus dice to get opportunities to do stuff rather than just spending them as extra success dice on actions. -For example:

- maybe a PC could spend a bonus die to step back behind an ally or behind some rocks just long enough to get off a volley.
- spend a bonus die to secure a p[position in a doorway, or on a path or ledge or some such (depending on the LMs description of the terrain) at the start of a battle to limit the number of foes that can engage at one time.
- spend a bonus die to climbing a tree and raining down arrows from above (essentially be reward until the enemy deals with the tree somehow)

Yeah, Battle Dice could be a good use.

Assuming the terrain allowed for bottlenecks and the chance of 5 PCs engaging 20+ orcs and still being able to maneovre around them and not be overwhelmed by each PC facing 4 orcs then rather than some kind of Athletics action I'd allow the use of Bonus Dice to allow for an attack on an archer as they break through the ranks of enemies for a brief time.

Seems resonable enough.