I'm an old time game master and I'm about to start a new TOR campaign after leaving Pathfinder RPG to TOR, which is in my opinion the best rpg I've seen in a while... I read the rules a couple time, came here for the question I had, which I found answer to, and now I'm ready. I think I can handle a group pretty well as Loremaster. So, you guys have any advice to give me to run a smooth game? My group will be:

A man of the lake Treasure hunter (female)
A barding Warden
A dwarf Slayer
and an elf scholar (female)

I prepared an introductory game so they could meet each other and strengthen their bond together, after that I plan on running The marsh-bell and the scenario from the Tales from the wilderland book.

Any inputs will be appreciated, thanks in advance!

Danny

BTW, hope I made myself clear, english isn't my native language....

Welcome to the forums, Tharngoth - great to see people picking up this amazing game. Hope you have fun with it.

Just a quick question, before starting the adventure... Have you run the players through a couple of rules tests? If not, then personally I'd start there with the following:

1) Try a few basic skill tests including using Hope to boost capabilities (reaching the target number required) and calling on Specialities and Distinctive Features. Also, it would be worth explaining how they should record Advancement Point skill checks as this can be tricky for some.

2) Take the players through a Journey so they get a bit of familiarity with how this is more important in TOR than other fantasy games... Explain/demo things like Travel Roles for characters, fatigue (including its potential impact on weariness), Hazards, etc.

3) Take the players through a high-level outline of an NPC Encounter - the ideas of introductions and using the right kind of skill to push the interaction forward to conclusion, etc.

4) Do a couple of sample combats - ideally one with a large enemy and another with a group of opponents. You really need to get the players used to Stances (it can be difficult for some players to understand), along with the varying options that can be used in each stance, using Hope, and the idea of Injuries/Protection Tests/Wounds, etc.

... I have a gaming group that's really experienced and they found the above of real benefit as it helped flesh out and demonstrate some key concepts of the system.

Have fun and good luck!

Let me echo some of what Rich said. I think going over a few things, especially combat, can be really helpful.

I jumped right in with my group and did a couple of things wrong. But we got the gist of it right, and the actual experience of seeing it in action really helped to understand the rules better when I came back and re-read them.

Best of luck with your group. This game is indeed a good one!

Please tell about the Advancement points stuff you mentioned Rich. Thank you!
I am about to start my own campagin, and I dont want to mess up. What shall I think of, thanks guys for helping out.


/Khamul

It's just really to explain to the players under what conditions Advancement Point checks against skill groups can be obtained - refer to pages 22 (under Skill Groups), 96, and 120 of the Adventurer's Book and also page 30 of the Loremaster's Book. I found when I started play with my group that we were getting confused as to when checks get awarded or not. I actually ended up applying some houserules of my own to alter/simplify the process for me and my players.

I'm still a little shaky on some of these points so anyone feel free to correct me if you think I'm mistaken on a point....

Also I think advancement points are really intended to be very loose rules. At one point they indicate that having an attribute related to the task can earn you an advancement point, later they made be think you needed to pass the skill roll to get the first dot and have a great success to get the second and so on, at another point I realized that you can get them for failed rolls, and it's more about the result being memorable. In the end it is really purely a judgment call on the part of the loremaster.

There are many guidelines but few firm rules at all on the topic.

1) You get advancement points for using your non weapon skills only.

2) When the LM decides to award the advancement point you fill in a dot on the far end of the row of the skill you used.

3) I could be wrong on this but when you get to the fellowship phase you get to erase the dots beside your skills and add them to your total advancement points. I'm not doing it this way anyway... but I think that is how it's supposed to work. I'm in favor of doing it every game session instead.

The rest are more guidelines in my mind

4) Once a character has a dot in the skill category it becomes harder to get the second and even harder to get the third. Once you have 3 you can't get anymore until you have the chance to transfer the dots into advancement points.

5) Sometimes specialties and traits allow the character to earn an advancement point when they otherwise would not earn one. This is not something I have used at all.

6) Advancement points should only be given for important rolls. That is skill rolls that may have an effect on the story or that would be important to the character, and not for idle or superfluous skill rolls for the sake of increasing advancement points.

I recall reading somewhere (it may have been something Francesco posted) that an Advancement Point should be awarded for the first Gandalf rolled in a skill. I'm not 100% sure about it, but it's what I do since I swear I read it.

Cynan,

The relevant section from the Adventurer's book, P.120:

ADVANCEMENT POINTS
Characters develop their Common skills by using them
and earning Advancement points. During the game, a
player can be awarded an Advancement point by the
Loremaster when he uses a Common skill and succeeds
– or fails! – in a distinctive or memorable way. A hero
successfully invoking a Trait for an action is more likely to
earn an Advancement point. Usually, a character earns
an Advancement point when the outcome of an action
surprises the acting player, his companions, and possibly
the Loremaster.

and from the Loremaster's book, p.30:

When considering the award of an Advancement point,
the Loremaster should bear the following points in
mind:
• If a player succeeds at an action he may invoke a
Trait to gain an Advancement point: if the Trait is
deemed to be pertinent to the action, the player
earns the point and checks the appropriate box.
• If the acting character was told prior to the roll that
failing the attempt would have resulted in seriously
negative consequences, then a successful roll should
be considered always worthy of an Advancement
point.
• Finally, rolls that overcame a severe or daunting
difficulty should be worth of an Advancement point
under most circumstances.
LIMITATIONS
The three circles that follow each Skill group on the
character sheet indicate that each group can receive
a maximum of three Advancement points. No more
Advancement points can be awarded to skills from that
group until after the next Fellowship phase.
Additionally, the number of Advancement points already
granted by a given group increases the requirement for
earning additional ones:
• If no circles have been checked yet in a Skill
group, the Loremaster should feel free to award
an Advancement point as soon as a player makes
a roll satisfying the requirements described above.
When a skill group has already been granted an
Advancement point, the Loremaster should only grant
a second point when something out of the ordinary has
been achieved, and a third point only in exceptional
cases.

The point being with these passages is that the Loremaster should be flexible in deciding whether a character deserves an Advancement Point or not: "players are free to ask for a reward when they feel their characters have achieved something meaningful, or have learned something in failing to do so".

Rules on the spending of Advancement Points are on pages 168 & 171 of the Adventurer's Book.

Robin S.

Hi Tharngoth,

We just jumped into The Marsh Bell and got on with it, and everything went fine. If your group's experience as players matches yours as a Loremaster, I'm sure you'll have a great game, even if you don't get everything perfect first time.

In other games I'd argue that it's almost important for the players to fall foul of some poor judgement calls early on, because they learn by their mistakes and feel more like heroes once they're not making such mistakes any more. But those are games where you start off as novices; in TOR you are Player-heroes from the start (even if you have to work hard to achieve actual Standing), so Rich H may well be right that it's worth a bit of a coaching / tutorial session to avoid newbie mistakes.

On reflection I guess I struggled a little with (i) me-the-Loremaster not awarding enough Advancement Points, and (ii) trying too hard to create objective detail for the process of trailing Balin and Óin, when all the narrative wanted was for some people to succeed in some appropriate rolls and then arrive there.
(Actually I still like a bit more objective detail, and my players don't often 'run with' narrating their actions... The prep I did between sessions to create the facts for them to work with as players, instead of just letting the dice guide us through, was really worthwhile.)

Oh, and don't forget to look at all the support materials people on this forum share in their signatures and on the 'sticky' Resources topic at the top of the screen.

Cheers!
--Os.

Thanks for all the inputs. I plan on using my intro scenario to teach them the mechanics of the game itself. I created a quick one night scenario where they will have to use some skills and virtues, as well as a quick fight at the end of the scenario to teach them combat rules.

As far as players, they are experienced enough with my style of game mastering since they played my pathfinder campaign over the past two years.

The first session is planned on saturday January 26, so I'll let you know how it went after it.

PS: I'd like to personally thanks Rich H for the wonderful pdf compilation he made for house rule, I started to read it yesterday and it's truly well made and useful.