Thanks to Halbarad's inspiration concerning his Horsefolk, here are some worthy Easterling foes for them. I pattern some of these nasties after various Ancient & Medieval peoples such as the Huns, Seljuk Turks, et al. Please feel free to tweak the stats as you need (I'm still working on them & others).

After him began the long rule of Cirion. He was watchful and wary, but the reach of Gondor had grown short, and he could do little more than defend his borders, while his enemies (or the power that moved them) prepared strokes against him that he could not hinder. The Corsairs harried his coasts, but it was in the north that his chief peril lay. In the wide lands of Rhovanion, between Mirkwood and the River Running, a fierce people now dwelt, wholly under the shadow of Dol Guldur. Often they made raids through the forest, until the vale of Anduin south of the Gladden was largely deserted. These Balchoth were constantly increased by others of like kind that came in from the east, whereas the people of Calenardhon had dwindled. Cirion was hard put to it to hold the line of the Anduin.

‘Foreseeing the storm, Cirion sent north for aid, but over-late; for in that year (2510) the Balchoth, having built many great boats and rafts on the east shores of Anduin, swarmed over the River and swept away the defenders. An army marching up from the south was cut off and driven north over the Limlight, and there it was suddenly attacked by a horde of Orcs from the Mountains and pressed towards the Anduin. Then out of the North there came help beyond hope, and the horns of the Rohirrim were first heard in Gondor. Eorl the Young came with his riders and swept away the enemy, and pursued the Balchoth to the death over the fields of Calenardhon. Cirion granted to Eorl that land to dwell in, and he swore to Cirion the Oath of Eorl, of friendship at need or at call to the Lords of Gondor.

So these people were then called in Gondor: a mixed word of popular speech, from Westron balc ‘horrible’ and Sindarin hoth ‘horde’, applied to such peoples as the Orcs [Author’s note] – See the entry hoth in the Appendix to The Silmarillion; Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-earth, II Cirion and Eorl and the Friendship of Gondor and Rohan, 313.

Red Book of Westmarch, III, Appendix A (iv) The Stewards, 334–35.

Among the descendents of the fierce Balchoth who serve Sauron are the Sowers of the Thunder, also known simply as the Thunderers. They are finely mounted on hardy Kirkil ponies, and these bloodthirsty heathen accompany Sauron’s second rise to power in the years leading up to the war. While they are never numerous or popular among the Easterlings, their leaders nonetheless survive the internecine wars among their kind, always plotting to gain power and influence.

The Dark Lord’s emissaries succeed in swaying some of them to the Shadow, among whom are this accursed warband, who find much common ground with the evil Lord of the Rings’ machinations. A ruthless warrior named Böri (Wolf) senses the power inherent in these heresies and allies himself with Sauron’s emissaries. The conniving but cunning brute attains a small warband of equally ruthless henchmen to work with him during any one of a number of loathsome plans against people thereabouts.

These renegades can be encountered almost anywhere within Rhovanion (Wilderland). Many of them have fallen by the wayside, but the survivors make up for their lack of numbers by cunning and wits gained through grim trial upon many a field or dastardly deeds.

Böri the Warlord

Attribute level: 4
Endurance: 15 Hate: 5
Parry: 4 + 2 (shield), Armour: 2d + 4(helmet)

Personality: 3, Movement: 3, Perception: 2, Survival: 3, Custom: 1, Vocation: 3
Sword: 3, Dagger: 3, Bow: 2

Special abilities: Commanding Voice

Göktîg (Sky-Arrow)
Warlord's Champion

Attribute level: 4
Endurance 19, Hate: 3
Parry: 3, Armour: 2d

Personality: 1, Movement: 3, Perception: 2, Survival: 3, Custom: 1, Vocation: 1
Sword: 3, Dagger: 2

Special abilities: Horrible strength

Raiders (as many as needed - I recommend at least one per player-hero plus the above brutes)

Attribute level: 2
Endurance: 9, Hate: 1
Parry: 2 + 2 (shield), Armour: 2d

Personality: 1, Movement: 2, Perception: 2, Survival: 3, Custom: 1, Vocation: 1
Scimitar: 2, Spear: 2, Bow: 2, Dagger: 1

Special abilities: Craven

Bit of a nod to REH there Mim. Nice. I am a fan myself.

I've been thinking about mounted Easterlings ever since the Redwater thread and how they might fit in. It's a nice idea to include the line that horsemen were never numerous nor popular among the Easterling nations.(Tolwen will be pleased ).
I am currently working on the notion that there are small clans of mounted Easterlings living east of the Carnen and north of the Sea of Rhun. Like the Northman Horsefolk who dwell west of the river they are semi nomadic with some clans friendlier than others. I have Crimean Tartars in mind for them as a 'look a bit like' analogy.
I didn't have a name for them but as they now ride sturdy Kirkil ponies, I am going to name them 'the Kirkil'.
I envisage their westernmost clans as having almost cordial relations with the Dalefolk settlements of the Redwater valley. There are, indeed, communities of mixed heritage. Those clans further to the east are more under the sway of the shadow and are unrepentant bandits and raiders.

Also had some ideas about Dorwinion as the source for Easterling cavalry. Gonna call it a night though. Will gather my thoughts and post those tomorrow.

Nice!

A general question that is somewhat pertinent here; should enemy use the player-heroes' weapon stats? They are far superior to that of enemies as described in the Lormaster Book.

I'm starting to believe that this is part of the voluntary asymmetry between players and villains and not only a representation of the 'crudeness' of orc weapons.

Opinions on that? Perhaps this would deserve its own thread...

Glorfindel

Glor, I think that it's down to personal taste. A case could certainly be made to suggest the existence, within the game system, of an asymmetry in favour of the heroes. Alternatively, there is always the argument for the simple superiority of mannish arms over their, crudely made, orcish/trollish counterparts.
I am more inclined towards the latter and would say that mannish opponents are,by and large, going to have better equipment with similar effects to the heroes.

Glorfindel,

Halbarad summarizes it nicely. I've spent a great deal of time mulling this over & I personally (so far) intend to keep the separation between the player-heroes & the servants of the Enemy for the same reasons - extending to weapons & armor.

IMHO, maintaining the feel of Middle-earth (for me at any rate) means a strong polarization unique to RPGs, ie: no mis-guided Orcs or such. They serve the Shadow because of their corruption. Now, this gets tricky for Men of course, but so far I'm erring on the side of caution .

As always, please feel free to tweak anything I post to your own personal tastes .

BTW, I'm really looking forward to what Francesco & Gareth do in terms of this subject with their future releases. Will they introduce Ruffians for example, & if so, how will they present them? This should be something exciting on down the road...

Halbarad,

I should have figured that at least one or two of the rest of we fanatical fantasy gamers/readers would also be REH fans .

Absolutely Mim. There are times when a little bit of REH is exactly what the doctor ordered.

I half expected the leader of your band to be Mikhal Oglu(the Vulture).

At the end of the Redwater thread, Tolwen made a very good point about Dorwinion. All we know for sure is that the people there produce wine that is favoured at the table of King Thranduil and that the place exists at the time of the default setting for TOR.
Tolkien scholars have placed this land on the shores of the sea of Rhun and Karen Wynn Fonstads population map of the third age in the Atlas of Middle Earth suggests that it straddles the River Celduin/Running.
We have no idea about it's people, when it came into being or how it fared during the War of the Ring
Earlier on the Redwater thread there had been a discussion about perceptions of Easterlings. By the end we had come to a fairly reasonable conclusion that the bulk of Wainrider/Balchoth forces were actually infantry and chariots rather than the Hunnic stereotypes favoured by Merp.
By the time of the second Wainrider invasion, they had amassed a sizeable force of horsemen but it was not explained who these riders were. All that was clear(from UT-Cirion & Eorl) was that they were not afraid to melee with the Gondorian infantry.

Before continuing, I must ask you to forgive the Redwater Redux printed above. I promise that I am coming to my point.

I am going to try to present a case for those horsemen to be of Northman rather than Easterling origin.

The country, known to the Elves and the Northmen of Dale and the Long Lake, as Dorwinion has existed since the early years of the third age.The folk were farmers, fishermen and wine merchants. They were sedentary and fought only in defence of their homes and vineyards. Fortunately the need to fight was rare as even their most belligerent neighbours enjoyed their wines and generally left them in peace.
All that changed either the invasion of Gondor in the sixth century of the third age. The Gondorians defeated the Easterlings and advanced their Empire to the shores of the sea of Rhun, encompassing the lands of Dorwinion.
The Gondorians themselves did not garrison this region but gave gifts of land to their Northman allies whose cavalry had played an instrumental role in the defeat of the Easterlings.

Thus the people of Dorwinion found themselves subservient to a new Northman warrior aristocracy. This introduced a whole new dimension to life on the shores of the inland sea. The Northmen used their horsemanship to dominate the entire region and using the trading vessels of the Dorwinrim, they also took to piracy with great gusto.
Allying themselves with the Easterlings, some of these Northman princes even took part in raids against the territory their earlier allies, the Gondorians.

A great war was fought. The Gondorians were the victors and the Kingdom of Rhovanion was founded by those Northmen who had remind faithful. Their King was Vidugavia.
On the shores of the inland sea, the faithless and smarting Northmen were returned by force into the Gondorian fold.
By the time of the Wainrider invasion in the 19th century, the Northman Aristocracy of Dorwinion is all but indistinguishable from their Easterling subjects. They now speak the same language, have most of the same customs and are thoroughly intermarried. They still retain their horse based military heritage although the old Eoreds are now known as 'Druzhina', which means something similar in the local Tongue and they still hold a grudge against their western cousins and the kingdom of Gondor.
I am suggesting that these Druzhina are the unexpected horsemen who accompany the second
Wainrider invasion.
I believe that the modern old of Dorwinion are pragmatic rather than friendly. Business is business to these people and they care not who they conduct it with. Dorwinion exists at the time of the War of the Ring and is not stamped out by the forces of Sauron for the simple reason that they take his side.

Sooo..how did the Northmen/Dorwinion nobles go from "Gothic" to "Russian"?

I understand the parallel of the Russian kingdom being founded by "vikings" is a tempting one, but I'm not quite sure I find it that convincing. (and fitting the Dorwinion situation)
(also Northmen being famed for their cavalry doesn't exactly fit this parallel)

I think the "hunnic stereotype" isn't all that far off in any case - Tolkien makes it clear that the Easterlings (similarly to the Haradrim) consisted of many different tribes and nations. And this changed a lot through the ages, nations came into power and disappeared without a trace.

It's interesting to look at the East with some of our own eastern history in mind - especially how the various Germanic and Slavic tribes coexisted with Central Asian peoples.

The Huns are nowadays mainly considered to have been bearers of a lifestyle, a culture shared by tribes of very different origins and appearances. (and obviously ways of war and fighting)

This happened over and over again - with Dacians and tribes like the Bastarnae (a tribe which is believed to be a Germanic one, but also sharing many Celtic cultural traits and also with a heavy steppe influence), later with the Hunnic confederation (containing many Germanic tribes with infantry prevalent in their armies, no doubt) and later with the Avar kaganate. (where even many Slavic nobles considered themselves to "be Avar")

It's interesting that the origins of many of these tribes and nations are entirely unclear and subject to many modern myths and nationalist propaganda. Sources call them by names from the ancient past, because they don't have accurate information and everything suddenly becomes very tangled.

I'm not saying your reconstruction of the Easterlings is absolutely wrong, just that it's very specific in a way I find not entirely necessary.


(if anyone feels like pointing to the "variag/varjag" thing being another link to Russians, I'd suggest reading Martinez's essay on this topic, I'm quite convinced it doesn't mean that Variags of Khand were likened to vikings in Byzantian service.)

This post has been edited by Jan Pospisil on Jan 26 2012, 06:22 AM

Halbarad, Jan,

I still remember the first time I read that one as a lad & the mere image of the wings of Mikhal Oglu gave me chills. The Akinji still rattle me. I've (shamefully) introduced a villain that previous incarnations of player-heroes have yet to best with the nickname of - wait for it - The Vulture. In addition, some of the Easterling outriders are known as the 'Sackriders.' Hey, I can't help it .

Seriously though, I have to weigh-in just a tad with Jan on this one. I believe I follow where you're going with your (excellent) further development of the Men of the region, but it seems like quite a shift. Jan's comments regarding the Gothic-Russ origins suffice for most of my concerns, but I'd like to add two quick points:

1. IMHO, I also envision the Easterlings as the migrations of a mix of peoples through the centuries, including the ancestors of the Ur-Goths & various steppe dwellers such as the White & Black Huns, Uighurs, etc. I don't see why they can't be a mix, especially in light of our previous discussions concerning the Wainriders & the Balchoth. At any rate, it's just my personal taste .

2. Your description of some of the Northmen turning to piracy makes sense in the context you present - but yikes - this is quite a departure from the ancestors (however remote) of the Men who will ride to the Celebrant & the Pelennor. Are you sure you want to go this route?

Hi Jan, thanks for your thoughts.

The Northmen adopted the styles, mannerisms and appearance of their subjects until over the centuries they became almost indistinguishable from them. As you rightly point out, this bears a parallel to the foundation of the Russian Kingdom, it's actually not the major analogy that I had in mind. I was actually thinking about the situation which saw the Ostrogoths fighting in the Hunnic armies of Attila and the Visigoths in alliance with Rome(Gondor analogy perhaps).
I have already included a Varangian themed element in my previous postings on the Redwater thread. My Varangians are the Northmen of the Celduin and Carnen valleys. Their settlements started out as trading posts but have swollen with refugees since the destruction of Dale by Smaug.
I should point out that I previously referred to a Hunnic 'stereotype' and not what actual Huns were like. Earlier in this thread I made reference to trying to find a place to fit in these Hunnic themed Easterlings. I have placed them east of the Carnen and named them the Kirkil.(thanks for the inspiration there Mim ).
Please don't get too hung up on my use of the word Druzhina. The folk of Dorwinion are not actually Russians in the same way that the Rohirrim are not actually Anglo Saxons or Goths. In my ME, they just resemble them in some ways and differ in others and I've used a Russian terminology in the same way that the Prof used Saxon ones.

I am, however, in complete agreement with you about the nature of the Variags of Khand.

Anyhow, you write that you don't believe that my take is completely wrong. We know nothing at all really about Dorwinion so right and wrong are surely subjective. I don't think that there is anything i have written that jars with the canon, so (as so often happens on this board) it all comes down to personal taste. I would be very interested to read your thoughts on what you think isn't right and how you would fix it for your own tastes.

It's mainly the russian word that rubbed me the wrong way. I understand the way Tolkien used our languages to give a parallel of relationships and evolutions in our own world, not necessarily to identify cultures directly by them.

In your theory, "Druzhina" would make the original inhabitants of Dorwinion parallel to the Slavic tribes in Russia.
Sedentary wine traders and farmers conquered by savage northmen, doesn't sound much like the Slavs - infamous for their barbaric customs, treachery and mercenary/thieving ways. ( no insult intended to any Slavs present, I am one myself) Who were rather united under northern rulers mostly voluntarily.

Again, I know you're not drawing close parallels, but then I wonder why we'd want to use a slavic word at all.

On another note - are there any sources for a cavalry tradition among the Northmen?

(I know about their relationship with the Rohirrim, but I'm not sure about how close it was, or how much we actually know about the pre and post-Éored Northmen)

Jan,

I was actually planning to have the original Dorwinish people as being something akin to the Armenians and Georgians of antiquity. The reason for this is that, along with Iran, these areas are where the first recorded examples of wine production occurred.

The use of a Slavic term for the soldiery was a personal whim, but why would it be wrong to do so? As you wrote in your last post, you understand that the languages are not necessarily used to identify the cultures in ME. Slavic/Russian names and terms evoke a sense of the exotic and foreign to me as a Celt.
They represent something hat sits between east and west and that is Dorwinion in a nutshell, to me anyway. Anyway, sorry to have rubbed you up the wrong way. No offence was intended.

I hope that I might be able to pick your brain in future for some ideas and translations.

Mim, I actually first encountered 'The Vulture' in the pages of a Conan comic back in the days when Bilbo was a boy. I managed some years later to get a copy of 'Sowers' and was pleasantly surprised to find both him and the actual origin for Red Sonja contained within. My favourite non Conan stories by a long chalk.

You don't like the idea of Northman pirates on the sea of Rhun then, eh?

Don't forget that these guys are 2k years prior to the default setting and that even by the time of the Wainrider invasion they are no longer, really Northmen. They are now Easterlings with a Northman ancestry.
In my mind, these are not the ancestors of the Heroic riders who rode to glory at Celebrant and the Pelennor fields. Those are the people who followed Vidugavia in battle against the Northmen I am referring to. The ones who broke their treaties and raided Gondor alongside the Easterlings, i could quite easily see as pirates.

Still unconvinced man?

I like this Easterling concept! I think I'll use it.

Now how about tackling a wain/ wagon/ chariot brigade of Easterlings?

Well, I guess your initial description took me a back (a bit), but upon reflection, your point about the 2,000 + years makes sense, though it takes some getting use to .

Since you've been pouring yourself into this the past few weeks & don't have a life outside of TOR, I'll be curious to see if you follow Jib's request & work on the Easterlings again.

I've never been too keen about previous iterations in films (perish the thought) & games, & look forward to your further work.

Lol. Two children who are pre school mean that my social life has currently become you guys. So there, you are stuck with me.
It's my youngest daughter, Eloise's first birthday today.
The older one, Phoebe, has just recently turned three years old.

Congratulations are due then dad!

In honor of Eloise's birthday you'll have to read to her about Bilbo's celebration of his attainment of eleventy-one.

Ditto for Phoebe when she's older .