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> Anduin Hobbits (wip)
Arthadan_
Posted: Oct 6 2012, 06:35 AM
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Hi all,

I'm working in this new Hobbit culture and I'd like to have some feedback. I'm stuck with the Cultural Blessing and I'd like to hear your opinions about the initial skills. Here we go!

Anduin Hobbits

As many other Peoples, the Hobbits came from the east-lands in the Dark Ages, seeking a safe haven in the West. At the time Greenwood the Great was a pleasant place and they settled in the valleys. They were already there when Isildur asked for help king Oropher of the Silvan Elves and when they saw the army marching south some of them were willing to join, but they were kindly invited to stay, as clearly they were not made for war.

As years passed by, life in the Anduin became harder, so they had to learn to fight to defend themselves and they began to live in caves for protection. Some of them decided to cross the mountains, in the hope of an easier life under the protection of a wise king in Arnor. But many were relutanct to leave the safety of their caves and so they splitted. With time, Arnorian Hobbits settled in Bree and founded the Shire and had a pleasant life, quite different from their cousins who decided to stay.

Description
Anduin Hobbits have been hardened by centuries of harsh life. Arnorian Hobbits such Bilbo became soft and it took an adventure to reveal his courage. But Anduin Hobbits courage is tested almost daily.

They are a peaceful folk which feel comfortable living in the wild, fishing, hunting and collecting berries. But when danger comes, they use their short size in their advantage, hidding whenever possible. When an over-confident foe trap one of then, he will find Hobbits are not easy prey when cornered, as they fight with the determination of a brave warrior.

Standard of Living
Due to the hard conditions they live in, relying on fishing and hunting to survive, they are considered Frugal.

Anduin Hobbits Adventurers
They organize in clans and loyalty to the clan is strong, as a large group have better chances to survive. But travelling seems safer again and many a dreamy young lad wants to see the wonders of the world, or finding a treasure so he can life as a king far from the wet caves. Also, some clans are thinking about sending scouts. And then there are outcasts...
Suggested Callings: Treasure-seeker, Wanderer, Warden. Going out of their caves, travel to distant places, find treasures or protect the clan. That is what drives an Anduin Hobbit to leave his home.
Inusual Callings: Slayer. Hobbits do not excel in combat and are more practical than vengeful.

What the Thane says...
• Bardings: Never hear of them. I guess they should be related to the Woodmen.
• Beornings: I think we saw a party of them. Big, hairy and a bit scary, if I may say so. We hid and let them pass by.
• Dwarves of the Lonely Mountain: I don’t know that Moutain, but I’ve heard of Dwarves. In the Old Days we trade fish for metal with them, and they were an honest and trust-worthy people. But a great evil fell on their mine and now there are nothing but Orcs. It’s good to have some Dwarves in the area.
• Elves of Mirkwood: Relusive and mysterious. We have a say “harder than spotting an Elf in the wood”.
• Elves of Lórien: My grandfather told me an Elf saved his life once. As ourselves, they tend to care about their own business. They have never harmed us and they keep away the Orcs and other nasty creatures from their land. Fine neighbours.
• Hobbits of the Shire: They must be the people who croseed the mountains seeking and easier life in the west-side some generations ago, and it seems they did! Maybe we should join them...
• Woodmen of Wilderland: The few occasions we met with friendly Big-folk, it was with them. But since the shadows grew larger and travelling was not safe anymore, nobody went to the trading places. We should resume contact with them.


Cultural Blessing
(Pending)

Starting Skill Scores
Common Skills
Copy the following skill ranks onto the characters sheet and underline the favoured skill:

Awe 0 Inspire 0 Persuade 0
Athletics 0 Travel 1 Stealth 3
Awareness 2 Insight 1 Search 2
Explore 2 Healing 1 Hunting 3
Song 1 Courtesy 0 Riddle 1
Craft 1 Battle 0 Lore 0
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Cleggster
Posted: Oct 6 2012, 07:25 PM
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Based on your description, I would have thought that there Standard of Living would be Martial. Just a thought.

Another "just" thought might be that all Hobbits have the capacity for hope. Maybe not what you were looking for I gather. But I could see the corruption resistance being species specific. Maybe instead of helping the fellowship, something to assist with survival. I don't got anything more specific at the moment though, but steering an idea maybe? unsure.gif
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Garn
Posted: Oct 6 2012, 07:54 PM
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Actually I would agree with Hope as well, it is a racial ability that long pre-dates the Hobbits arrival in the Shire and finally acquiring safety. Remember, Smeagol has a portion of it as evidenced by his not becoming a Dark Lord. The Bearers of the Three all alluded to the fact that they could not withstand the temptation of the One Ruling Ring, but Hobbits have consistently and repeatedly done so.

In game terms, that means Hope. It might not be as pronounced, as the Shire has allowed them a prolonged period of happiness, but it would still be a marked advantage if Smeagol already had some portion of it.


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Robin Smallburrow
Posted: Oct 7 2012, 06:36 AM
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Arthadan

I have to be a bit critical of your new culture, because in my view you have not considered enough where these hobbits came from in the first place. It may interest you to know that I was also working on an 'ancestor culture' for the hobbits, based on a short story I wrote " The Tale of Tuck's folk: being a Tale about the Origin of the Hobbits". I wrote this story after having read everything I could find about hobbits, including all the History of the Middle-earth series

My conclusions from all the sources:

1. That the hobbits were originally descended from early men (not elves as Peter Jackson seems to imply!)

2. That sometime in their early history, they formed a bond with the entwives and came to the Land of the Entwives, probably in late First Age, although early Second Age is possible.

3. But during the Wars of Sauron & the Elves, the Land of the Entwives was devastated and became The Brown Lands - the surviving hobbits fled, mostly to The Gladden Fields to become your culture of The Anduin Hobbits. But from Tolkien's writings it seems clear that some hobbits also fled into south-eastern Mirkwood (to become confused with faeries by the Woodmen), some may also have fled further north and thus become known to the early northmen (hence the knowledge that even Theoden has!).

Hope this has given you some more inspiration and ideas! I will look at your culture a bit more closely later...

Robin S tongue.gif


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bluejay
Posted: Oct 7 2012, 07:45 AM
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Robin, not wanting to derail the thread here but I don't see the implication of Hobbits being descended from Elves in the LotR movies. Was it a documentary or something I missed?
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Arthadan_
Posted: Oct 7 2012, 04:24 PM
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Thanks all for the comments!

I'll go for something related with Hope for the Cultural Blessing.

Robien, I can't see how the remote origins of the race in the Frst Age or how they were in the Second Age is related to this. I'm trying to imagine how the few remaining Stoors of the Anduin could be in late Third Age. However, I'm really curious about the relation between Hobbits and the Entwives, could you please provide some quotes?
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Robin Smallburrow
  Posted: Oct 8 2012, 11:20 PM
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[/B] Arthadan[B] Here are my comments on your culture 'Anduin Hobbits'

1. In your initial description perhaps put in something about their excellence as farmers/herders/gardeners, from their origins as helpers of the Entwives - also ties them in closer to the Shire Hobbits

2. Cultural blessing should either be the same as for Shire Hobbits, and/or an additional blessing which is the Cultural Virtue ('Hide in Shadows?) from AB, or a similar blessing. In my view all Anduin Hobbits would need this ability.

3. What the Thane says - Who is this person? I seem to recall Gandalf saying that Gollum's clan was ruled by a matriarchal Grandmother. I like what 'The Thane' says about the other cultures, except you need to modify the Woodmen to:

"They are the only big folk we deal with nowadays, because like us they are knowledgable about the wild and secretive, although many of them often mistake us for faeries"

Insert a new culture, Northmen of Rhovanion: "In better times we used to trade with these big folk who rode horses, but now they have all gone away south across the river we hear". This is because trade would be more likely b/w these two cultures than with the Woodmen, who themselves are a more recent culture. Think historically!

4. Skills - ok, but they should have at least one rank in Athletics (Swim or Boat, anybody?)

Responses to queries:

1. Look at the hobbits' ears in the movies for Peter Jackson's ideas!!

2. From "Prologue: Concerning Hobbits" for Tolkien's views:

".... yet plainly hobbits are relatives of ours, nearer to us than elves or dwarves... they spoke a very similar language... and liked/disliked the same things"

"... It is said that there are still a few wild hobbits in the eaves of Mirkwood west and east of the forest"

" 'Hobbit' seems to be a corruption of 'Holbytla', the name they were known by in legend in Rohan, both peoples originally came from the Upper Anduin"

3. So although Tolkien does not make any direct connection b/w hobbits and Entwives, we can surmise that this was so based on the above clues, also that Treebeard notes that the Entwives would like The Shire, and that The Brown Lands lie just south of Mirkwood, close to all these places.

Hence I was inspired to write 'The Tale of Tuck's folk', which I will put in my signature when I get a chance!

You might also want to see what Eluadin is doing in regards to the Woodmen's origins - you guys should talk to each other!

wink.gif Robin S. [I]


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TOR documents created by me, you can view and download by clicking these links:

Magic in Middle Earth V.2 The Dragon's Ring List of Aids V.2 Fan Supplement V.2

A Kidnapping in Umbar
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Garn
Posted: Oct 9 2012, 01:13 AM
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Arthadan,
Another reason to switch from Thain to some kind of "elder" hierarchy is that the Thainship was established in the Third Age in response to the power vacuum created by the fall of Arthedain and had a male-only, military aspect to it. Ergo, the Anduin Hobbits would have no reason to adopt a name or position they knew nothing about. Not to mention that Grandma would be excluded from it due to age, infirmity and gender.

Tolkien Gateway: Thain


Robin,
Interesting inference about the Entwives and Hobbits. Especially because I remember the passage about the Entwives teaching the peoples nearby who desired to learn about gardening. Except, I really could not recall anyone in the area so it always struck me as a strange comment. Who wants Dol Guldur & Mirkwood for a neighbor? I thought it might have been the Woses or their forebears (the folks MERP called the Daen Coentis). But it is very hard to tell because Tolkien homogenized all of the cultures of Man into Edain offshoots (Numenoreans, Rohirrim, Northmen, etc) - or enemies (Easterlings, Southrons, Dunlendings, etc).


As to PJ... I have to say I like the idea in one respect. It acts as "factual support" for the existence of Faeries based on the legends known today. They were simply Hobbits running off, or popping in & out of hiding. Over time the tales became warped, with smaller beings and gaining the power of flight. Thus supporting the Faerie Tale motif and the idea that Hobbit and LOTR are pre-histories of our own world.

Mind you, I totally agree that Hobbits are a sub-culture of Man who have undergone a type of Pygmy-like evolution, but there is a certain degree of "logic" to PJ's idea.


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bluejay
Posted: Oct 9 2012, 06:57 AM
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Hey Robin,

I agree that Hobbits are closer to us than Elves but ... aren't the ears Tolkien's own ideas? There are at least one or two passing references to that in The Annotated Hobbit I'm sure.

Oh in fact I've found a quote for you: -

QUOTE
I picture a fairly human figure, not a kind of 'fairy' rabbit as some of my British reviewers seem to fancy: fattish in the stomach, shortish in the leg. A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown). The feet from the ankles down, covered with brown hairy fur. Clothing: green velvet breeches; red or yellow waistcoat; brown or green jacket; gold (or brass) buttons; a dark green hood and cloak (belonging to a dwarf).

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 35 (#27)
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Arthadan_
Posted: Oct 9 2012, 06:31 PM
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First some quotes about the Stoors from The Fellowship of the Ring:

QUOTE
The Stoors were broader, heavier in build; their feet and hands were larger, and they preferred flat lands and riversides.

The Stoors lingered long by the banks of the Great River Anduin, and were less shy of Men.

The habit of building farmhouses and barns was said to have begun among the inhabitants of the Marish down by the Brandywine. The Hobbits of that quarter, the Eastfarthing, were rather large and heavy-legged, and they wore dwarf-boots in muddy weather. But they were well known to be Stoors in a large part of their blood, as indeed was shown by the down that many grew on their chins.

'Long after, but still very long ago, there lived by the banks of the Great River on the edge of Wilderland a clever-handed and quiet-footed little people. I guess they were of hobbit-kind; akin to the fathers of the fathers of the Stoors, for they loved the River, and often swam in it, or made little boats of reeds.


Robin
QUOTE

1. In your initial description perhaps put in something about their excellence as farmers/herders/gardeners, from their origins as helpers of the Entwives - also ties them in closer to the Shire Hobbits


I picture them living in harsh conditions, hidding in caves and hunting, fishing and collecting wild fruits and vegetables. They could not risk to have something so visible as gardens or crop fields.

QUOTE

2. Cultural blessing should either be the same as for Shire Hobbits, and/or an additional blessing which is the Cultural Virtue ('Hide in Shadows?) from AB, or a similar blessing. In my view all Anduin Hobbits would need this ability.


I'd rather give them another CB, I want to highlight how their enviroment has changed them. They are not so friendly as the Shire Hobbits. 'Hide is the Shadows' is a nice option, thanks!

QUOTE

3. What the Thane says - Who is this person? I seem to recall Gandalf saying that Gollum's clan was ruled by a matriarchal Grandmother. I like what 'The Thane' says about the other cultures, except you need to modify the Woodmen


You're right, I shouls say they're ruled by a Thane (a "Thain" in fact). About the matriarchal rule, you may read letter 214 (basically, it says it was exceptional and not the rule). I've checked the chronology and you're right, the Necromancer is long gone so there should be some contact with the Woodmen.

QUOTE

Insert a new culture, Northmen of Rhovanion


I'm reticent to add cultures which no longer exit as such. I think is better to stick to the existing neighbour cultures.

QUOTE
4. Skills - ok, but they should have at least one rank in Athletics (Swim or Boat, anybody?)


Good catch!

Garn
QUOTE

Another reason to switch from Thain to some kind of "elder" hierarchy is that the Thainship was established in the Third Age in response to the power vacuum created by the fall of Arthedain and had a male-only, military aspect to it. Ergo, the Anduin Hobbits would have no reason to adopt a name or position they knew nothing about. Not to mention that Grandma would be excluded from it due to age, infirmity and gender.


I was supposing that they have some kind of chief before settling in the Shire, then they accepted the authority of the King of Arthedain and when there were no kings left, they reverted to a chief of their own. Regarding the ethymology, I think "Thain" is closer to the Northmen languages than to Adûnaic, so I'm guessing the name came from the other side of the mountains.

By the way, there is a quote stating Hobbits belong to the race of Men:

QUOTE
The Hobbits are, of course, really meant to be a branch of the specifically human race (not Elves or Dwarves) – hence the two kinds can dwell together (as at Bree), and are called just the Big Folk and Little Folk. They are entirely without non-human powers, but are represented as being more in touch with 'nature' (the soil and other living things, plants and animals), and abnormally, for humans, free from ambition or greed of wealth. They are made small (little more than half human stature, but dwindling as the years pass) partly to exhibit the pettiness of man, plain unimaginative parochial man – though not with either the smallness or the savageness of Swift, and mostly to show up, in creatures of very small physical power, the amazing and unexpected heroism of ordinary men 'at a pinch'.

footnote in letter #131 To Milton Waldman
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Robin Smallburrow
Posted: Oct 9 2012, 07:16 PM
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ArthAdan

You are wrong in saying that the Men of Rhovanion no longer exist-look at the town of Celduin in TfW- these people are descended from the Northmen, not Woodmen


Your quote gives future evidence of the Entwives' involvement-who taught the hobbits their natural knowledge?


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A Kidnapping in Umbar
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Robin Smallburrow
Posted: Oct 9 2012, 07:46 PM
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I suppose what I am trying to say here about the Men of Rhovanion is that if an Anduin Hobbit PC encounters both a Woodman and a Rohirrim, he/she will actually understand the Rohirrim better, because of their closer language & cultural roots

Robin S.


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Magic in Middle Earth V.2 The Dragon's Ring List of Aids V.2 Fan Supplement V.2

A Kidnapping in Umbar
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Arthadan_
Posted: Oct 10 2012, 02:16 AM
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True, but the Northmen of Rohovanion do not exist as a single culture, they are the Beornings and the Men of Dale (not so sure about the Woodmen). Rohirrim are obviously Men of Rohan, with Northmen forefathers.

So, using "Northmen of Rhovanion" seems confusing to me. About the languages, there is a nice chart in the Adventurer Book (page 34) stating languages of Beornings, Woodmen and Men of Dale are related. I'll add a note regarding Hobbit language, as related also to them.

But I'll avoid speaking about far away people such the Rohirrim, same as Francesco has had (i.e. no metion about the Rohirrim language belonging to the same family of Dalish and Andauin Vales Speech).
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Garn
Posted: Oct 10 2012, 07:48 AM
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I think a part of the suggestion was to account for someone that the Hobbits of Anduin might well be aware of, even if it is only through myth and legend.

Basically you're on the reverse side of Tolkien's stated situation. Where the Rohirrim know of the Hobytla as legends, but not facts. What is being suggested is that you do your part to support the mythos, that you give the Anduin Hobbits a definite stance on the Rohirrim and/or their ancestors.

Their position might be "We used to know some riders once, but they left long ago." Or, "Horses? Those great fearsome beasts? We avoid them any time we see a herd!" (Because they kept running into trained warhorses and spooking them.) Or whatever you think is most appropriate for this culture with regards to the Rohirrim or the Eothred (or whatever they were called at the time).

The idea here is that their is, or was, some form of contact and it needs to be "officially" stated by the author - you.


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Arthadan_
Posted: Oct 27 2012, 06:56 PM
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Small update (yes, I know it has been a while!):

Added to the Description section:
There are not many of them left in late Third Age, and they organize in family clans ruled by an Elder. The chief of the most important clan is the Thain or supreme authority, however the Thain seldom meddle in other clans affairs unless he is asked to or they are in times of great need or danger.

Added to What the Thain Says:
• Rohirrim: We have legends of brave Men raiding big horses, and I have a horn embossed in gold which was given as a present to my ancestors by their king, it came from a dragon treasure! They used to call us “hobytlan”, I wonder where did they go.

Note: "Hobytlan" is the plural for "Hobytla".

Cultural Blessing
-Hobbit Resolution-

When cornered with no possibility to flee, or when their Fellowship Focus is facing a mortal danger... (I need some help here, I want some kind of boost, as when Merry overcomes the Nazgûl fear to help Eowyn but I'm not sure about how to put it in game terms).

Weapon Skills
Choose one of the following two Weapon skill sets, and record it on the character sheet:
1) Short Spear 2, Sling 1, Dagger 1
2) Sling 2, Short Spear 1, Dagger 1

Sling: use the dagger weapon profile, but is a ranged weapon.
Short Spear: Use the Sword weapon profile, but it is a two-handed weapon for Hobbits.

Specialities
Chose two traits from:
Beast-lore, Boating, Fishing, Herb-lore, Story-telling, Swimming, Woodright.


Adventuring Age 20-50
Anduin Hobbits do not easily abandon their clans, but some young lads in their tweens may feel the urge to seek a better more comfortable life and seasoned hunters may be sent on errands.

I'm working on the backgrounds, that will be the next (and hopefully the last) update.


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Valarian
Posted: Oct 27 2012, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE (Arthadan_ @ Oct 27 2012, 10:56 PM)
Cultural Blessing
-Hobbit Resolution-

When cornered with no possibility to flee, or when their Fellowship Focus is facing a mortal danger... (I need some help here, I want some kind of boost, as when Merry overcomes the Nazgûl fear to help Eowyn but I'm not sure about how to put it in game terms).

Could give them a Feat Die reroll on Fear tests.


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Arthadan_
Posted: Oct 28 2012, 08:07 AM
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Thanks, but I was looking for something a bit more general. Not only for fear, but for any "life or death" situation.

New update:

Anduin Hobbits Names
Anduin Hobbit names are similar to those used by the Arnorian Hobbits when they first settled in Eriador. They are composed by a first name and a family name and their first names, like Fredegar or Hildibrand, betray a common root with similar names used by Men in the vales of the Great River. Family names seem to fall into three main categories: surnames without a traceable meaning (Bolger), ‘descriptive’ surnames (Hornblower, Proudfoot), and surnames hinting at a geographical feature (Burrows, Hayward).


Male Names: Adalgrim, Amalric, Bandobras, Berilac, Bertram, Blacwin, Bucca, Cottar, Doderic, Dodinas, Erling, Everard, Fastred, Ferdibrand, Ferdinand, Ferumbras, Filibert, Flambard, Fortinbras, Fredegar, Gerontius, Gorbadoc, Gorbulas, Gorhendad, Gormadoc, Griffo, Halfred, Hamson, Harding, Hending, Hildibrand, Hildifons, Hildigard, Hildigrim, Holfast, Ilberic, Ingomer, Isembard, Isembold, Isemgrim, Isengar, Isumbras, Madoc, Marcho, Marmadas, Marmadoc, Marroc, Meriadoc, Merimac, Merimas, Odo, Odovacar, Reginard, Robin, Rorimac, Rudigar, Sadoc, Saradas, Savaric, Saradoc, Seredic, Sigismond, Silvester, Ted, Tobold, Tolman, Umfrey, Vulfoliac, Wilcome, Wimarc, Wiseman.


Female Names: Ada, Adaldrida, Adamanta, Amaranth, Asphodel, Belba, Bell, Belladonna, Berthegund, Berylla, Camellia, Celandine, Donnamira, Eglantine, Elanor, Esmeralda, Estella, Estrilda, Gilly, Gundred, Hanna, Haunild, Hawisa, Hilda, Lanthechilde, Lily, Linota, Malva, Marigold, May, Melilot, Menegilda, Mentha, Mirabella, Myrtle, Pansy, Pearl, Peony, Pervinca, Pimpernel, Primrose, Prisca, Radegund, Rosamunda, Rose, Ruby, Salvia, Tanta.


Family Names: Ashdown, Barfoot, Brooker, Browne, Chowring, Dunn, Fleete, Furner, Hale, Herenden, Nasche, Singyard.

Adventuring Age 20-50
Anduin Hobbits do not easily abandon their clans, but some young lads in their tweens may feel the urge to seek a better more comfortable life and seasoned hunters may be sent on errands.

Starting Endurance and Hope
Same as for Shire Hobbits.
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Arthadan_
Posted: Oct 30 2012, 07:49 PM
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Starting with the backgrounds:

-Bold Hunter-
Since you were young, you felt comfortable in the woods and with the beasts, and your father taught you the ways ofthe hunter. As you grew stronger, so did you deeds, and you are renowed for hunting a boar single-handed. Many winters you have saved your family from starvation thanks to your skills, but last winter your old mother died leaving you alone. After grieving her you realised you were free to see the world.

Basic Attributes
Body 4, Heart 5, Wits 5
Favoured Skill
Hunting
Distinctive Features
(Choose two Traits from those listed)
Adventurous, Determined, Forthright, Hardy, Patient, True-hearted, Wary.

-Curious Scout-
(Introduction pending)

Basic Attributes
Body 3, Heart 5, Wits 6
Favoured Skill
Explore
Distinctive Features
(Choose two Traits from those listed)
Energetic, Elusive, Keen-eyed, Merry, Swift, True-hearted, Wary.

I'll add a fisherman, a healer, a "noble" and a "lore master" quite probably, but I'm open to suggestions.

By the way, I promise a tidy and nice document when it's done.
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Arthadan_
Posted: Oct 30 2012, 08:04 PM
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And here you are a bonus I was saving for the PDF, but I can't wait so much:

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It's a concpt art for the Electronic Arts cancelled RPG game "the White Council". Yes, they were going to have Anduin Hobbits!

Here you are the whole gallery.
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Robin Smallburrow
Posted: Oct 31 2012, 01:18 AM
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Arthadan

Good stuff so far, love the picture!

In regards to the Cultural Blessing, recall this from the Adventurer's Book, p.23:

A character’s Hope score defines the reserves
of spiritual vigour that heroes draw upon when put in
danger. Players can choose to spend a point of Hope to
tap a player-hero’s energy reserves and possibly push
him beyond his limits

So I am thinking something like this for the Anduin Hobbits:

Cultural Blessing: Slow-Kindled Courage : As with most of your kind, it takes a lot to push you to the edge, but when this occurs you can accomplish great feats usually considered impossible. If you need to spend a point of Hope on a task to succeed in something where you would normally fail, you receive a temporary bonus to the roll equal to your Heart score.

Or something like this, as I recall Tolkien refers to it as "Slow-kindled Courage" - see the relevant sections on Merry vs the Witch-king, and Sam vs Shelob (and The Tower of Cirith Ungol) as good examples.

Robin S. wink.gif


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Halbarad
Posted: Oct 31 2012, 06:42 AM
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Looking good Arthadan. I have a few thoughts to share if you don't mind.

smile.gif

Firstly, the name Bolger. It is 'Middle English' and means 'Leatherworker'.

On the subject of the family names of the Anduin Hobbits, I reckon a prevalence of names linked to the river, the Gladden fields and Fishing would make a nice distinction. Names like Salmonleap, Troutcatcher, Fenner, Fisher, Gladdenberry, Riverside, Riverbank, Ferry etc.

Robin's idea for the Cultural Blessing is pretty neat too, but needs re jigged to avoid being too powerful.

I would change the name of it to 'A Friend in Need' and make it that the bonus is only granted where the character is intervening to save a companion, or an innocent, from meeting a terrible end (or at least a negative experience) at the hands of the Enemy.

I was thinking of the line that Eowyn/Dernhelm uses prior to the Pelennor fields. "Courage for our friends Merry". Problem is, I can't remember if it's in the RotK or just in the film. dry.gif
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Poosticks7
Posted: Oct 31 2012, 08:36 AM
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Where in Tolkien's writings does it say that Hobbits still live in the Anduin Vale by the time of The Hobbit?

Does it or are you just making a creative assumption?

Not dismissing your work I was just wondering.


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Arthadan_
Posted: Oct 31 2012, 04:12 PM
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Poosticks7, it's in some versions of the hunt for the Ring, in the Unfinished Tales. I picture them as a small community, no more than 30-60 of them, so the impact of adding them is quite limited regarding the "canon" story of the area.

The account of the vain journey of the Nazgûl up the Vales of Anduin the Stoor settlements were not entirely deserted at that time; and such of the Stoors as dwelt there were slain or driven away by the Nazgûl.

The Unfinished Tales, Part III: The Third Age, Chapter IV The Hunt For The Ring, Section II: Other Versions Of The Story


Halbarad, thanks for the family names!

Regarding the cultural blessing, (thanks both, you and Robin!), I like your ideas. I've combined them into this:

Slow-Kindled Courage:
As with most of your kind, it takes a lot to push you to the edge, but when this occurs you can accomplish great feats usually considered impossible. When you or your Fellowship Focus are in dire need (about to meet a terrible end at the hands of the Enemy or in serious danger), if you need to spend a point of Hope on a task to succeed in something where you would normally fail, you receive a temporary bonus to the roll equal to your Heart score.

Does it sound right to you?

Also, I'd love to have some suggestions for the remaining backgrounds.
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Arthadan_
Posted: Oct 31 2012, 11:44 PM
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Preview (Click on "regular download" in the bottom-right corner).

I've borrowed quite a few elements from the rule-book, if that's not fine please tell me and I will remove them.
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Robin Smallburrow
Posted: Oct 31 2012, 11:49 PM
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Arthadan

The only problem with the Cultural Blessing as it stands is that it is a bit unclear as to when the character would be in 'dire need', and I would foresee possible arguments over its use.

I prefer a more black and white ruling on this so that both players and loremasters can agree on it, which is why I suggested 'if about to fail the player may if spending Hope etc.'

On the other hand I can see what Halbarad is saying with regards to thinking my suggestion is a bit too overpowered.

Any suggestions as to how to make this a bit clearer in the game?

How about: 'If about to fail a roll and no Eye result then character can add Heart score if spending a Hope point'

Or: If you spend more than one Hope point ?? (normally not allowed but maybe for these guys??)

Robin S. [B]


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Poosticks7
Posted: Nov 1 2012, 08:36 AM
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Ah it was in Unfinished Tales was it. Then I agree that they most surely were a very secretive bunch.

What about this for Slow Kindled Courage

When an Anduin Hobbit fails a fear test he can roll the test again in the following turn with a bonus equal to his heart value. If successful the Hobbit gains a hope point.

That to me sounds like slow kindled courage and shouldn't be open to abuse.


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Arthadan_
Posted: Nov 3 2012, 09:54 AM
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I've been thinking about the Cultural Blessing. I want something useful for any dangerous occasion, not only to resist Fear. So, I think is a good idea to link it to the use of Hope since players usually spend Hope in dire situations. Also, I want to prevent this little guys becoming killing-machines abussing this rule.

Any time an Anduin Hobbit spends one point of Hope for a test (except for attacking in combat) to avoid getting hurt himself (i.e.climbing to avoid to fall) or helping a friend from getting hurt (i.e. jumping quickly to hold the hand of a friend who is about to fall by a window), he always use his favoured Heart score or the favourite score of the relevant attribute (whatever is higher). This also can be used only once per gaming session for attacking in combat to fight an opponent or help a friend.

What do you think?
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Robin Smallburrow
Posted: Nov 4 2012, 02:39 AM
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That's better!

Robin S. tongue.gif


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A Kidnapping in Umbar
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Arthadan_
Posted: Nov 4 2012, 07:00 AM
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Thanks!

I have reworded it, to make it shorter and easier to apply:

Any time an Anduin Hobbit spends one point of Hope for a test to avoid getting hurt himself, preventing a friend from getting hurt, or attacking an opponent who is fighting in close combat with a friend, he always use his favoured Heart score.

Now I'm wondering if I should restrict it to the Fellowship Focus of keep it open for any "friend".

And this is an image I cannot use because I can't find the author e-mail address to ask for permission. So I share it here (from her Deviantart gallery):

user posted image

It's a bit big, sorry about that!
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CheeseWyrm
Posted: Nov 4 2012, 08:05 AM
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QUOTE (Arthadan_ @ Oct 28 2012, 12:07 PM)
Anduin Hobbits Names
....Family names seem to fall into three main categories: surnames without a traceable meaning (Bolger),...

Interestingly, not all of Tolkien's Hobbit family names came from his etymologically/linguistically/historically -inspired imagination.... the Bolgers were named in honour of his good friend Ray Bolger (yes - the actor most famed for his role as The Scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz (MGM, 1939).


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Halbarad
Posted: Nov 4 2012, 10:21 AM
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Indeed Cheesewyrm, but the name Bolger is a Middle English name meaning Leatherworker and is not without an etymological/linguistic base. smile.gif
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CheeseWyrm
Posted: Nov 5 2012, 08:42 AM
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True that ... and darn fine & toast-worthy Hobbit-folk they be, them leather-vested Bolgers! tongue.gif


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Cleggster
Posted: Nov 5 2012, 01:57 PM
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This had made me wonder. How many of these virtues and abilities are racial? I look at the hobbit virtue "Art of Disappearing" (or, How Not to be Seen) and think that seems more like something the Anduin Hobbits would have instead of the Shire Folk. We only have one example of each race at the moment. But four cultures of men. And each is unique with there own Virtues. I imagine the woodland elves would be different than the Lothrorian elves. But what about hobbits? The "Small" virtue sure seems hobbity. And are they universally resistant to corruption?

Also, I thought of a blessing that could work for your Hobbits "Slow Kindled Courage". Either as an add on or something.

When there Fellowship Focus is unharmed, at the end of the session they get an extra point of Hope back. This could apply to just them, or the whole Fellowship with them included I suppose.

It would encourage spending of hope in defense of others.

So that mixed with what you proposed already or some sort of corruption roll could work.
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Dankers
Posted: Nov 8 2012, 08:35 PM
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QUOTE (Cleggster @ Nov 5 2012, 05:57 PM)
This had made me wonder.  How many of these virtues and abilities are racial?  I look at the hobbit virtue "Art of Disappearing" (or, How Not to be Seen) and think that seems more like something the Anduin Hobbits would have instead of the Shire Folk.  We only have one example of each race at the moment.  But four cultures of men.  And each is unique with there own Virtues.  I imagine the woodland elves would be different than the Lothrorian elves.  But what about hobbits?  The "Small" virtue sure seems hobbity.  And are they universally resistant to corruption? 

Also, I thought of a blessing that could work for your Hobbits "Slow Kindled Courage".  Either as an add on or something. 

When there Fellowship Focus is unharmed, at the end of the session they get an extra point of Hope back.  This could apply to just them, or the whole Fellowship with them included I suppose. 

It would encourage spending of hope in defense of others. 

So that mixed with what you proposed already or some sort of corruption roll could work.

Given that Anduin Hobbits have remained undetected for so long, I would give some thought to promoting "Art of Disappearing" to be their Cultural Blessing - with the improvement that it does not cost any Hope to activate. Likewise, "Hobbit-sense" would then shift down into the Cultural Virtue category but with the Fellowship point bonus removed.

Slow-Kindled Courage strikes me as being similar to Brave at a Pinch... it could replace it in the virtues list.

Excellent work all told. I'm definitely looking forward to integrating Anduin Hobbit NPCs into an adventure soon.


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Rich H
Posted: Nov 9 2012, 06:28 AM
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Just as a little point of interest, someone posted on RPGnet that there is content (unless it gets changed) in one of the upcoming products (Darkening or Heart, forget which) about these hobbits. Will be interesting to see how it matches up with what's being discussed here.


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Arthadan_
Posted: Nov 12 2012, 06:25 PM
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Real Life has me busy at the moment, but I'll resume work as soon as possible.

I was thinking along the same line about Cultural Virtues, they seem general enough to apply to all Hobbits, so I think I will keep most of them (Dankers' suggestion sounds great).

I'll give a thought to the Rewards and I think I'll have everything I need to finish this little project.

Thanks all for the inputs so far!
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Arthadan_
Posted: Nov 16 2012, 01:45 PM
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Edited to add some more.

Some new backgrounds:

-Curious Scout-
Rather than the riverside life of a fisher, you enjoy the woods and the hills. You usually led the way for the hunters and keep a watchful eye for strangers and wild animals. Unkike most of your people, stuck to the place where they have born, you think it could be good to relocate in a safer place. With that idea in your mind, you left your birthplace to see the wide world dreaming with finding a better place for your people.

Basic Attributes
Body 3, Heart 5, Wits 6
Favoured Skill
Explore
Distinctive Features
(Choose two Traits from those listed)
Curious, Energetic, Elusive, Keen-eyed, Merry, Swift, True-hearted, Wary.

-Keeper of Traditions-
Every clan has a Keeper of Traditions, a person who has learnt all the wisdom of the ancient tales and knows by heart the old ways which must be respected. You are the apprentice of the Keeper of your of your clan and as such, you have a vast knowledge of the old lore, but as the final step in your training your master has asked you for something rather inusual. You have to spent five years travelling, learning the traditions of other peoples to become wiser, because he fears the hardest test for your people is about to come and maybe the wisdom of your folk alone would not be enough.

Basic Attributes
Body 3, Heart 7, Wits 4
Favoured Skill
Lore
Distinctive Features
(Choose two Traits from those listed)
Cautious, Clever, Patient, Suspicious, True-hearted, Wilful.

-Noble deeds-
You have always admired the heroes of your people, clever and resourceful individuals whose courage and firm hand gave to your people a place to settle long time ago. Some people claim you have too much Took blood in you for your own good, but truth is you dream to become like the heroes of old. Despite you have been always preparing yourself to be strong, you are aware that your modest and boring life will never give you the chance. So, full of dreams and high hopes, you decide to test yourself in the broad world beyond your vale.

Basic Attributes
Body 7, Heart 4, Wits 3
Favoured Skill
Athletic
Distinctive Features
(Choose two Traits from those listed)
Adventurous, Bold, Determined, Eager, Honourable, Robust, Proud.

-Son of the Fisherman-
Fond of the riverside life, you are a skilled fisher as your father and the father of your father before you. You know well the river, the best places to capture the greatest fishes and you are a capable boatman. But your peaceful life has dramatically changed recently, when your father and your fellow fishers were killed during an Orc raid. The Elders have decided your people must hide in the caves for a time like moles. That means nobody can go out to gather food for the incoming Winter and people will starve. You have decided someone has to make a stand, to go out and find help. You will not live with fear anymore.

Basic Attributes
Body 5, Heart 5, Wits 4
Favoured Skill
Hunting?
Distinctive Features
(Choose two Traits from those listed)
Cautious, Determined, Forthright, Steadfast, Stern, Trusty.

-Lonely Healer-
Somewhat isolated from the rest of the clans due to your blond hair, height (you are quite tall for a Hobbit) and unearthly beauty (gossips say your mother was an Elf) you live with your old aunt who is the only family you have left because you have never known your parents (they died when you were too young to remember, or so you have been told). Truth is you enjoy the solitude of the forest and have a natural talent to heal others. Thanks to your gift, you are accepted in the Hobbit society but you know that they all think of you as an outsider and you feel you do not belong here with them.

Basic Attributes
Body 4, Heart 7, Wits 3
Favoured Skill
Healing
Distinctive Features
(Choose two Traits from those listed)
Cautious, Elusive, Fair, Keen-eyed, Merciful, Tall, True-hearted.



This post has been edited by Arthadan_ on Nov 16 2012, 07:12 PM
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Poosticks7
Posted: Nov 17 2012, 11:17 AM
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Looking good Arthadan.

Can I suggest Awarness as the skill for the last background. I imagine that these secretive folk keep a wary eye out for trouble. Call it Sharp-Eyed Watcher or something. (Not the best name but you get the idea).


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Arthadan_
Posted: Nov 17 2012, 09:20 PM
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Poosticks7 I think Awaraness fit the concept, but the most remarkable skill, what sets this background apart and defines it is stil Healing.

Now with the last bit:

VIRTUES AND REWARDS

Cultural Virtues
Same as Shire Hobbits (Adventurer book, page 131-132).

Cultural Rewards
The Hobbits of the Vales of the Anduin still keep heirlooms of days long past. Weapons of a time when they need to fight to survive and some gifts received from other peoples.

Wooden Spear
Made of an unknown kind of wood, this spear has no metal head. Instead, its tip was hardened with fire and it had proved a hundred times to be lighter and as more resistant than the others.
You can attack so fast with the wooden Spear that you roll twice the Feat dice and keep the best result, representing the advantage of your light weapon.

Armour of Fortimbras the Mighty
Legend tells that Fortimbras the Migty himself, the greatest hero of your people, and his trusted warriors recieved these armours as a gift from a king of the Northmen long ago for his help in a battle. These leather corslets are reinforced with small bronze plates and some of them have been carefully preserved until now.

If hit by a Piercing blow while wearing Lucky Armour, roll the Feat die twice and keep the best result on the Protection test.

Teeth-breakers
The teeth-breakers are iron balls used as sling missiles. They are smaller and heavier than common stones and can be thrown with greater accuracy. Metal is a luxury for Anduin Hobbits, so this balls are greatly appreciated.
When you throw a teeth-breaker with your sling, damage is increased by 1 point. Besides, any called shot is considered to be piercing, since it is aimed at an unarmored .


As has been already noted, the Cultural Blessing and the Cultural Virtue Brave at a Pinch are too similar, so I think I'll go for another CB. Ideas?

Edited Armour of Fortimbras the Mighty and Teeth-breakers.

This post has been edited by Arthadan_ on Nov 18 2012, 07:37 AM
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Robin Smallburrow
Posted: Nov 18 2012, 04:06 AM
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If you're not going with a CB as it is too similar to 'Brave At A Pinch', how about a better version of Anduin-Lore, since they are Anduin Hobbits after all!

Suggestion: Bred to the River: When making any test related to the Great River, you can roll the Feat die twice and keep the best result. Too Powerful??

Robin S.


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A Kidnapping in Umbar
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