When a gandalf rune comes up in combat I'm assuming this is an automatic hit and always a potential piercing blow as well. My question is do any tangwar runes rolled add tothe success level even if the original target number wasn't met?

Yes. The Gandalf rune gives the success and the Tengwars tell the quality of success (regardless of the numbers).

Thanks for the answer:)

If you have a Gandalf rune on your Feat Die then yes they do but otherwise they don't (if you haven't met the TN). ... Just thought that was worth clarifying in case you were wondering about Tengwar results when separate from a Gandalf rune. If you have met the TN but have no G rune result then each tengwar result means your attack does extra damage, based on the character's Body attribute score (plus any possible bonuses gained elsewhere).

In that Waserum has gotten his/her answer, I'll grab the thread and ask my own question concerning the G-rune = an Automatic Success. How do you feel about Automatic Successes in TOR?

I'm not sure I really care to have them present in the game ... especially when there is not an Automatic Failure to balance it out. There is only a 8.3% chance of them occurring per roll, but I think I'd rather have a G-rune only add the maximum die value to the die pool (and have something "special" happen when the TN is achieved, too). Of course, it'd have the same result for Injury purposes.

BTW, the RAW say that a G-rune is worth the maximum value in a die pool. But, what is the maximum value? A 10 or a 12? I thought I found one time that it was a 12, but I can't find where now.

The G-rune being an auto-success means that even those PCs that don't have any success dice have a 1 in 12 chance of success on a standard TN. If it only counts as maximum, then the best they can do is a really easy task (TN10).

I'm not sure about maximum value on the G-rune. I do realise that page 25 of the Adventurer's Book, under How to Read the Feat die says, "The [G-rune] is considered to be the highest result obtainable on the die.." This is a sentence I would recommend editing for a second printing because of the confusion it can cause.

The way I interpret things is that a G-rune result on the Feat die yields an automatic success no matter what the TN (it does not have a numerical value). This means every player-hero has a chance to succeed at any action.

The Loremaster's Book, page 20, under Epic Feats - An Optional Rule says, "As rolling a [G-rune] results in an automatic success, every player-hero has always at least one chance in twelve to succeed at any action attempt, no matter how arduous the challenge. This rule makes for faster action resolution, and helps in building a positive ‘heroic’ atmosphere for the game..."

It goes on to give the optional rule for Epic Feats by saying, "If the Loremaster wants to present his players with an extremely difficult task but also wants the different levels of abilities of the characters to be reflected in their chances of success, he may present the action as an Epic feat.

An Epic feat is an action considered to have a Target Number set beyond the capability of any player to match or beat, but that can be overcome if the player attempting it rolls a [G-rune] AND at least one [Tengwar icon]."

So, the rules explain the reason for automatic success as helping to build a positive 'heroic' atmosphere, but at the same time gives an option for Loremasters that feel a certain situation should be a little harder still.

Im sure it says somewhere that the G-rune counts as 10 toward a normal success.

Well... I think The One Ring is an heroic roleplaying game. Success might be more often than fairules.

In another hand, heroes find dramatic opposition in the Shadow as external forces who want to destroy their culture permanence in the world and internal forces in the way of corruption, doubts, disloyalty and madness. So, Shadow success = heroes fairule.

Bottom line: I think this mechanic captures Tolkien feel, even when it's not as gaming as we may like it.