Old thread: http://cubicle7.clicdev.com/f/index.php?tr...topic=2484&st=0

Last year we had this long thread about body. A number of issues were discussed: here are two major ones:

1) Mechanically, body seems far less important that wits (parry value) and heart. All three matter if you spend a hope point, but without that hope point body seems to be a minor thing.

2) The game's description of body makes it sound important in combat. The reality is that it's a rare thing to be used (again, without spending hope points).


I'm curious what people say after several months of play. Do you think the system needs a tweak here?

I've had two thoughts:

1) Use body for rolls where valor or wisdom don't apply, e.g. haggling with an innkeeper to borrow a cart. The innkeeper doesn't care if you're brave or deep, but if you're decent looking or a smooth talker he may give you a moment of his time.

2) Replace body for heart in recovering after battle. Remember there are two ways to recover endurance - nightly, and resting for 30 mins after battle.

-Jeff

Following this thread, we started subtracting Body from your endurance fatigue total, minimum zero.

It's worked fine.

I assume you mean the fatigue total?

Indeed I did.

Fixed.

In my (admittedly short) experience, the extra damage dealt by great and extraordinary success (which is based on Body) has made a difference for strong heroes. I had a lot of players around the table, but there wasn't a combat round where a great or extraordinary success wasn't rolled (the elf who seemingly couldn't roll anything below a 16 extraordinary success was particularly brutal!)

Also, body adds to armour rolls (with expenditure of hope, I concur) which also has saved our Barding character on two occasions. Although the situation didn't come up, this would have been even more true with our two lightly armoured elves.

Actually, our two woodmen felt the most vulnerable with their low body.

Glorfindel

Glorfindel said it well. I think the Damage bonus provided by Body is pretty significant in and of itself. I mean, a Dwarf with Body 7 wielding a mattock can do 15 points of damage with a great success and 22 points of damage with an extraordinary success! That's enough to drop most opponents with one blow.

The three attributes seem very well balanced to me...

Body - starting Damage bonus, Attribute bonus for attack rolls and Protection tests
Heart - starting Endurance and Hope, Attribute bonus for Fear tests and Corruption tests, recovery of Endurance
Wits - base Parry score, turn order for same stance

Also, Body governs Awe, Athletics and Awareness - three skills used quite frequently during combat and other times.

I, also find them well balanced, tho' reduction of fatigue by body is appealing.

The extra damage is a powerful thing... especially with a favored weapon.

The one thing I'll note: wounding is rare save by called sword or bow attacks.

I think they are fairly balanced - still obviously HEART has a much more widely used advantage (meaning that the benefits from it happen more regularly).


Most of the BODY advantages happen only when certain criteria is triggered:

Such as using HOPE Points, or when you roll Greater/Extraordinary Success w/ attacks.

Where as the Will and Heart have most of their aspects apply as a given.


I have taken to taking half the BODY score (round down) and subtracting that amount from the Encumbrance of equipment (min Encumbrance is 1) for determining Fatigue etc.

This give a slight benefit to Body that is always in effect without the need of HOPE or random variable dice results to apply. I feel this isn't unbalancing at all, and gives enough of boon to the BODY to level the playing field.

It's actually made players consider stronger BODY characters since implementation - where as prior most all players gravitated towards Heart and Will as the go-to character options.

This is an interesting idea. Have you found it to unbalance Dwarven characters, as they also benefit from Redoubtable? Or is this a non-issue?

I mean, it makes sense that Body (playing the role of strength), would interact with encumbrance in some way. Stronger characters would logically be able to handle more weight before getting Weary.

I remember getting into a bounce house style boxing ring to challenge a friend...a very big and muscular friend. We put on these giant-sized boxing gloves that must have weighed about 6-10 lbs. each. That doesn't sound like much until you start swinging! I distinctly remember becoming Weary, barely being able to pick up my arms and swing the gloves, while he was still holding them up to his face to block like they weighed nothing.

Francesco has purposely chosen Heart over Body to govern Endurance (which affects Fatigue). He is consistent with that concept throughout. Your idea avoids messing with that by having Body reduce the encumbrance of carried items, rather than bolstering Endurance. So, in your "fix", both Body and Heart affect Fatigue--Body lowers encumbrance ratings of items (which lowers Fatigue); Heart & Culture determine Endurance score (which provides the gap between Hale and Weary); Heart assists in recovery of Endurance; Favoured Heart benefits Dwarves, lowering their Fatigue threshold even further.

So, the only conflict I see is a double dip for Dwarves, who would basically lower their Fatigue through Body and Favoured Heart.

Has not been a problem - though we have only one dwarf. Still, I have not seen any issue with it.

And to be frank I really don't have a problem with a dwarf having that much "kick" in the area of encumbrance resistance. That's a pretty well established RPG cliche for dwarves. I don't see a problem with it.


"Very dangerous over short distances!"



EDIT: Dwarves still suffer from one of the biggest weaknesses in the game - a general lack of HOPE points.