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> Bout Of Madness, A Rules Question
Beckett
Posted: Jun 21 2012, 01:16 PM
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Quick question: How long does a bout of madness last? I don't see this mentioned in the LM.
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Poosticks7
Posted: Jun 21 2012, 01:48 PM
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As long as is dramatically appropriate. wink.gif



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Garn
Posted: Jun 21 2012, 03:26 PM
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Absolutely correct.

Something to consider: You're going to annoy the player if you control their character for what they feel is too long. Particularly if they don't like the Shadow Weakness concept / system.

But it can work wonders if you get a player who is willing to portray a bout of madness correctly for themselves.


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Garn!
I have yet to read the books thoroughly.
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Bigasd
Posted: Jun 25 2012, 04:53 AM
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I don't think someone will like their characters controled by others.


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templar72
Posted: Jun 25 2012, 10:53 AM
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Since the game takes place over so much time it is also possible to have the 'bout of madness' take place "off camera". I have been running about 3 sessions per game year. Often times 2-6 months may take place between a session or even during the middle of the session. We have had one 'bout of madness' in the group so far and play continued as normal but after the immediate adventure was over the character spent the "off camera" time in a bout of madness. When he returned to the Company after the fellowship phase he was slightly changed.

My group also plays Pendragon which leaves characters in a state of madness when a Passion roll is fumbled, sometimes the character finishes the scene and others the character leaves the scene dramatically and may show up 6 months or a year later. That choice is totally up to the player and handled in a way that adds the most to the story. I have had a character miss the following two game sessions and I played a spare knight during that time. When he returned it was dramatic and mysterious.

As a GM I would never forcefully take a players character away or over, as a player I would never refuse to let the GM take the character to do something interesting for the story. The best solution I have found is to work with the Lore/Game master to come up with something that is fun for the player, that's the point of playing right, but not necessarily fun for the character.

Just my thoughts.


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Garbar
Posted: Jun 25 2012, 11:53 AM
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QUOTE (Bigasd @ Jun 25 2012, 08:53 AM)
I  don't think someone will like their characters controled by others.

Perhaps better to think of it like this...

You get really drunk. (the Bout Of Madness)

Next morning you wake up feeling terrible with no clear recollection of what happened to you or how you got to where you are!

Bit by bit the pieces fall into place as you get fragments of memory back or people tell you what you did.

This leaves you feeling guilty (the Permanent Shadow Point).

But life goes on and your friends forgive you as you forgive yourself (lose the Shadow Points).

Maybe next time you'll be more careful... but probably not!
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doctheweasel
Posted: Jun 25 2012, 12:28 PM
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QUOTE (Bigasd @ Jun 25 2012, 08:53 AM)
I don't think someone will like their characters controled by others.

It can be adjusted to fit the group's tolerances. It hasn't happened in my group yet, but I intend to just give the player a "this is what you feel" and have them run with it. I may interject an action if it fits (i.e. "you pick up the gem and stuff it into your sack.") but leave the rest to them.
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Garn
Posted: Jun 25 2012, 01:45 PM
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Bigasd,
True, thus my warning. Bouts of Madness are supposed to be controlled by the Loremaster according to the game rules. That is why it is of great help if the character is willing to roleplay it correctly for themselves. It can be difficult to get players to do this accurately, without veering off on a tangent, or otherwise making things more awkward. There has to be a certain amount of trust between the parties involved.


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Garn!
I have yet to read the books thoroughly.
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Osric
Posted: Jun 25 2012, 05:25 PM
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The Loremaster's Book says it's "for a short period of time" (p.58).
A Bout of Madness should last 'for the duration of the scene', as White Wolf(?) games measure time -- if that isn't too circular!
But if the Bout involved the character going away from the rest of the Fellowship, he might -- even once no longer technically in the Bout -- make a perfectly rational decision not to come straight back and face the shame. Anything up to choosing to spend the rest of his life as a hermit in the woods might be reasonable.
...
No, the players won't like having the control of their characters taken away from them, so -- boldy on TOR's part -- that's a deliberate added disincentive against accruing Shadow Points, hence discouraging Misdeeds, encouraging the preservation of your Fellowship Focus, etc.
But if all your Shadow Points come from journeying through lands where you hadto go in order to save Middle-earth (read: where the LM said the adventure was), you could be very justified in resenting such consequences being imposed upon you.

Having the LM take over the character's actions does spare the player the responsibility for roleplaying the doing of bad things.
That means the player isn't directly responsible for anything that the recovered character and the rest of his Fellowship may have to clear up later, minimising strife around the table.
It also means there's no one trying to make a cynically favourable interpretation of how the Bout should play out, that'd minimise the impact of the Bout of Madness -- but also no perverse glee in roleplaying it too hard!
(To my shame, many moons ago I once directed my character's uncontrolled berserk fit against a fellow PC, rather disingenuously explaining that it wasn't my fault and I couldn't be held accountable. There. They say confession's good for the Shadow Point total!)

It was in White Wolf again where I first read of the concept of 'riding the wave', I think they callled it. In TOR terminology this would be that where an LM thinks a player is mature enough and the group is solid enough, he can let the player continue to control the character through the Bout, and only assume LM control if things aren't being done well enough.
Obviously if it works out OK, the resulting roleplaying experience will be all the stronger, but I can totally see why TOR wouldn't want to recommend it for all groups.

Cheers!
--Os.


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The Treasure of the House of Dathrin - Actual Play of original material in HârnMaster, 2008
The Rescue of Framleiğandi – Actual Play of The Marsh Bell as adapted for use in this campaign.
A Murder of Gorcrows - Actual Play of original material. (last entry 20 Feb 2013)
www.othermindsmagazine.com – a free international journal for scholarly and gaming interests in JRR Tolkien's Middle-earth
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