I've had this idea for a while to do a double campaign. One set in the current setting and another set much earlier (second age for instance), the idea being that both campaigns would run parallel with the same players, running different characters or in the case of some elves, the same ones, so that they would discover the story from two sides.

I am in the process of writing something similar for another campaign I run, using the Ubiquity rules.

The adventure starts in Victorian times with those characters uncovering a plot which continues through the 1930's, 1940's, 1980's and up to the present.

All stories are part of the same plot (a conspiracy of course) and each generation of characters can refer back to the deeds of the others, use their notes etc.

The one major problem you might have in Middle Earth would be the same elves being alive in both adventures. What happens to your continuity if the elf in the second age gets killed when they have already been encountered in the third age?

It would be safer to use a direct descendant, but with elves that could be as simple as a son or daughter.

I did something like this for a MERP campaign with the Dunadan protagonist in the late Third Age having "dream" episodes associated with the experiences of an Adan ancestor in the First Age. These episodes included clues and hooks -- as well as some red herrings -- for the Dunadan adventurer.

At the time, I was not inclined toward a particularly complex plot, but I think the potential is enormous. On the other hand, it also felt particularly contrived over a long course of time.

In any case, good luck and keep us posted. I, for one, am very interested to hear how it goes!

Its a great concept indeed. The problem is the later time-period already has history written; so the earlier time period does limit the plot a bit - characters can only do so much that may or may not alter the course of history.....or the future in that case.

I ran two subsequent D&D campaigns; the first one was set in a much earlier period and ended in a Sauron-winning kind of scenario.

Then the new one set in a much later period experienced history that had been written as a result of what their previous characters had done, and between the two ages, the evil had been removed; but the new campaign had to "learn" what their previous characters had learned to prevent history from repeating itself when it became obvious that the evil was returning. They as players knew the risks of the evil returning, and knew what the BBEG was capable of doing; so they were motivated as players, and their new characters had to prevent it.


Also - don't know if you're a player of LOTRO - but the "Epic Story" quest chain habitually has the player take over control of certain important NPCs at vital historical parts of M-e, to experience it first-hand, in effect, your real character is learning the tale second-hand, but as a player, you get to play throught it first-hand; but like my original concern was - since history is already written, despite having some control and living it "first-hand" the outcome is already a forgone conclusion. For instance - one part has you controlling a dwarven emissary at the time the Balrog first shows up in Moria to kill Durin. Obviously we know how it's all going to end, but it's cool to "live" it virtually and run around in there while it's happening.

Warning: Pools of green stuff, whether acid, poison or something else, are hazardous to your health. I can attest they are insta-kill on contact.

I did something similar in a Call of Cthulhu game 3 years ago. The game was in a modern setting. But during the investigation that took them to Eastern Europe, they found an ancient book. It turned out to be a diary of a knight, instead of giving them a handout, the next session they played the character of the knight and his retinue for two sessions. The end was fixed, with a powerful NPC saving the day, but I was able to reveal the history of the region and some campaign specific clues through play. The players really enjoyed it.

I think your idea could really be fun, using the 2nd age characters as flashbacks. But you will probably need to have some major events that are unchangeable.

Yep ... been there ... done that. Ouch!

I played in a game of Chivalry & Sorcery that was somewhat similar. The group played GM-generated characters, all Dwarves, in a historical "flashback" scenario. The group entered a sacked Dwarven Hold to kill the dragon what sacked it. It didn't go at all like the GM had planned as we rompty-stomptied his ancient dragon in a wholly unanticipated, anticlimactic event. Obviously, the "surviving" Dwarves that told the tale in the years past made up the difficulties about which they bragged. My character, Flar Greenteeth, critted the dragon through the eye and into the brain with a heavy crossbow ... basically a 1 in a 1,000 chance ... in the first few rounds. No PC was killed, a few were injured, but nothing serious! Fun was had by all, but the GM did look a sad when his beastie finally dropped and its dying throes (which all C&S dragons have ... they typically continue fighting for 6 or so rounds after they are actually dead) scored absolutely no hits. Good times....

Good luck with your run, El Mythico!

Hmmm, it's a tad like the ol' time-travel paradox isn't it?
You know what they say - offhandedly swat a dumbledore in the Fens of Sirion .... and in 3rdAge Laketown - Bard is a baker not a bowman. D'oh!

IMO as LoreMaster you'll want to be confident that crucial Third Age plot elements can't be scuppered by player action in the 1stAge. As SirK mentions - 1stAge plots may be heavily constrained by the known history.
I've not tried simultaneously running 2 campaigns linked across time. Any travel back to earlier times in my games have been dreams/flashbacks (as per Mordagnir & Throrsgold) or effects of magick - essentially as plot devices to reveal some mystic campaign lore.

Each to their own .... I think if I was to dabble with adventures tripping between Ages I'd have a primary campaign (3rdAge) in which the players have their own Heroes, but when the plot requires a First Age development I'd hand out characters for that adventure (similar to Templar's Cthulhu mission). Perhaps the 1stAge heroes are ancestors (unlikely for a hobbit of course). The players would not be as attached to these 1stAge characters - so heroic or tragic fates can unfold as the narrative requires.
Then as a VERY rare extra-special treat an adventure could take the 3rdAge Heroes back in time. I wouldn't want them altering the Tolkien canon, but they could certainly perform heroics that bring about the history as we know it.
eg: after some minor heroics in Dorthonion & Taur-Na-Fuin the party find adventure in the Pass of Anach and the Crisaegrim mountains - and discover an entrance to Gondolin (of all places!) Not permitted to leave the realm they may feel doomed to never return to their own time but - having just performed a service for Thorondor - are able to respond when servants of Morgoth also find the hidden land and flee towards Angband after slaying some elven guards & abducting young princess Idril .... etc etc. The Princess is returned to Gondolin, the Heroes do not re-enter and return to the 3rdAge keeping Gondolin's secrets, yada yada.
(Just made it up off the cuff ... please don't cursify me!)

El Mythico - all the best with your Age-spanning campaign. I too would be very keen to hear how it pans out for you.

Ditto. Especially the big pools and rivers of it at Carn Dum.


Even without the insta kill green goo - that place is vile.

And oh by the way - that winds up playing out more like a narrated story than an interactive game - because so much of the "history" must remain in tact.


HOWEVER, when going "back in time" for the history campaign, a method the LM can take to both ensure some measure of interaction by players, and keeping things in tact is to put the PCs in a "support role" to the main events.

LOTRO does this for the Storyline Epic quests quite nicely.

For instance - You don't travel with Frodo. And you don't help Frodo get the ring out of Bree - but you do hear about his flight and learn that Creban's are flying about trying to find him. So you agree to go hunting creban's in an effort to lessen the shadow's clairvoyance.

Or

there are quests when you're scouting out areas that have servants of the Shadows spying or moving on to the heroes of the story, so that you can report back to Elrond the activity and he can use it to help steer and guide The Fellowship when he sends them from Rivendell.


So you're not actually "changing" any events, or being directly involved, but you do feel that the efforts you make are helping the protagonists quests succeed in the long run.


Soooooo using this template, perhaps you can have the PCs guide Turin's sister to safety after she loses her memory......essentially untold stories. They don't interfere with the overall story - they just support it. And in the end, the players feel like "Hey - I HELPED that come to fruition...."

I will have to take your word for Carn Dum. Although 65th level, I have not been inside yet as I've solo-ed the game for the most part. Right now I'm on hiatus from it (hardware issues).

Although I did see lots of "green water" around the edges of Carn Dum, like the undead area (whose name escapes me ATM).

(Oh, and did anyone else try to swim the Anduin?)

Yep. When I'd finally made it to Lothlorien and came to the banks of the Great River, I just HAD to have a swim. Got maybe a dozen strokes in and just died. No warning. Just died.

Has anyone tried jumping off the tree platforms? Same result.

And now back to your regularly scheduled topic, already in progress.