Character Creation: Order of Operations?

Is there a specific order of operations to character creation?

I ask because of how the Barding Virtue: King's Men works with spending prior experience.

King's Men adds +3 to endurance and also allows you to raise several different weapon skills spending 1 less XP than you normally would. Can you, in effect, take this Virtue and then spend prior experience, or must it happen after spending your prior experience?

I'd say if you strictly go by the order that the character generation steps are set out in the rulebook then Valour and Wisdom distribution come last and so such a Virtue should NOT apply to previous experience spends.

I'd say it's down to the LM to allow this to apply to those 10 experience points spent at character gen. I personally think it shouldn't be allowed to affect the spend of prior experience as Virtues and Rewards relate to 'in-game' benefits (ie, once the game has started) and not char gen ones.

I'm completely on the fence, Rich. The order as presented in the Adventurer's book does show Prior Experience (spending) before selecting Valor/Wisdom, but the impression I get is that it's simply to take the reader on a guided tour through the process. No where do I get the impression that it *must* be finished/selected first before moving on. In some cases you must do one thing first (Select a starting cultural package, for example), because you simply can't determine another thing (starting endurance/hope, for example) until you do.

King's Men doesn't strike me as that powerful in any event (+3 Endurance and -1 xp discount when buying from 3 different weapon skills, when XP to raise gets into the double digits very quickly).

I'd say the 'table' on page 31 of the AB, at least, heavily implies the order that steps should be taken.

Well, Resilience and Confidence (both Masteries) only really reset (good for Hope, not really a big deal for Endurance as it replenishes quickly anyway) and raise Endurance and Hope by 2 points each respectively, so something for you to consider. Personally, other equally powered Virtues/Rewards don't offer char gen bonuses so why would this one be the exception? That's the question I'd ask myself and is why (along with the table on page 31) I don't think it should be applied. Up to you though, you're the LM.

The first argument (the table on page 31, which I missed previously) convinces me more than the 2nd.

The chart spells it out pretty clearly that there is an order of operations. (Forgive me, I snoop through this stuff while I'm at work and I can't really open the AB all the way and maximize it and browse through as I would if I were at home).

As far as the relative value, I think the Cultural Virtues are *supposed* to be better than the respective generic masteries. But even that having been said, Resilience and Confidence have the added benefit that they can be selected more than once, which adds to their value, and they reset your totals. (which, as you've declared, is less important for Endurance than for Hope-although that brings me to another point, wouldn't both of these reset during a Fellowship Phase anyway? If you heal, even with a non-treated injury at the rate of 1 per day, all you need is around a month to heal that...and let's face it, the likelihood is that you're going to be able to treat that injury at some point. A month (at most) seems about the minimum time for a Fellowship Phase...but anyway I digress).

No worries, things are easily missed!

And they are. The reduced experience cost is permanent so even if you don't apply it to char gen it still remains for later development. Not just that, but I'd say there are some significant RPG opportunities and advantages to taking this particular Virtue.

Hope does not. Off the top of my head, the only ways to replenish Hope is through drawing on the Fellowship Pool, in-game bonuses (such as meeting an objective), purchasing Confidence, and any other event that the LM wants to apply a Hope gain.