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Maenoferren
Posted: Nov 15 2012, 08:56 AM
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Hi Guys, new to TOR and new to the forum.
Loving the system
I am getting the hang of most things and am in the process of running a few games to get myself and some players into the rule systems. We have run combat a few times now and there is one thing that keeps niggling us.

As a defensive stance gives you a tn of 12 plus parry then why would you bother with anything else, our dwarf has a tn of 20 so why would he reduce that to 14 in a forward stance.

Another question along the same theme - do the monsters get to choose a stance, obviously bowmen would take the rearward stance, some with a particular hatred would take a forward stance, but what about the rest?
Cheers
Stephen
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Glorfindel
Posted: Nov 15 2012, 09:09 AM
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Hello and welcome Maenoferren!

As for combat stances, don't forget that your stance decides for both the TN require for other to hit you but also for you to hit others. If you are in defensive stance for example, the TN to attack your opponent is also 12 + parry. When choosing the forward stance, you are more likely to deal damage to your enemy but also more likely to be damaged yourself. Your attack is also dealt sooner, which can become important in some situation.

Monster do not get to chose a stance; this choice is on the player's side only, deciding both for him/her and the monster.
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Halbarad
Posted: Nov 15 2012, 09:11 AM
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Welcome to the boards Maenoferren.

The stance you choose sets the difficulty for your opponent to hit you but also sets the same difficulty for you to hit your opponent. By choosing defensive stance, your Dwarf sets his own TN to hit an opponent at 12 plus opponents Parry value. If he chosen forward stance he would only need TN of 6 plus opponents Parry value to hit.

In surmise, Forward stance- easiest to hit your opponent, easiest to get hit.
Defensive stance- hardest to hit your opponent, hardest to get hit.
Open Stance- in between the above.

Opponents don't get to choose stances. Their TNs to hit are set by the pcs through their own choices.

Cheers
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fbnaulin
Posted: Nov 15 2012, 09:11 AM
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You hit enemies considering your stance TN too. So, when you are in defensive stance is hard to hit them in the same way they have problems to hit you. See page 158 in Adventurer's Book.

Enemies never choose stance, they have to engage adventurers. See page 45 in Loremaster's Book.


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Maenoferren
Posted: Nov 15 2012, 09:18 AM
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Cheers guys, thanks for the quick responses.
We knew there was something not right, but couldnt work out what it was smile.gif
It makes sense now smile.gif
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Valarian
Posted: Nov 15 2012, 09:38 AM
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The way to look at it is that the stances reflect an attitude to risk in melee combat.

Forward stance - all out attack. It's easy to hit your opponent, but you leave yourself open to easy counter-attack.
Open stance - balance of attack and defence. A balanced approach where counter-attacks are parried easier but attacks not hitting as frequently.
Defensive stance - all out defence. You cautiously wait for opportunities to present themselves in attack, but make it difficult for opponents to hit you.



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Rich H
Posted: Nov 15 2012, 11:43 AM
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QUOTE (Maenoferren @ Nov 15 2012, 12:56 PM)
As a defensive stance gives you a tn of 12 plus parry then why would you bother with anything else, our dwarf has a tn of 20 so why would he reduce that to 14 in a forward stance.

Others have covered everything for you Maenoferren but I wanted to specifically address this for you and your player.

Dwarves usually have a high armour (Protection) value - the dwarf in my group has 5d + 4, so he very rarely suffers from a Wound. However, when he takes damage in combat, and loses Endurance, he very quickly becomes Wearied (due to his high Encumbrance from his armour and weapons). As you'll know, this means that he ignores results of 1, 2, and 3 on his d6 rolls. When this happens it is advantageous for him to move into Forward stance as with its low TN he can still hit his opponent even though he is Wearied but as he still has lots of Endurance (can be as much as 23 points left) it isn't so much of a risk if he is hit.

Its a fun dynamic to the combat when it happens as his opponents often wish they hadn't hit him!


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2) Three's Company - a TOR Hobbit-only Actual Play thread: http://cubicle7.clicdev.com/f/index.php?tr...&showtopic=4081
3) A collection of additional and house rules for TOR: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/Additiona...use%20Rules.pdf
4) Alternate Journey rules: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/Rules%20-...ney%20Rules.pdf
5) Anyone for Hobbit Cricket? If so, check out my rules here: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/Hobbit%20Cricket.pdf
6) Keep those TOR character sheets clean, use this Scratch Sheet instead: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/Player%20...tch%20Sheet.pdf
7) TOR Character Sheet (use with Scratch Sheet): https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/Player%20...Friendly%29.pdf
8) TOR Tale of Years Sheet: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/Player%20...Friendly%29.pdf
9) Adventure - To Journey's End and the Eagles' Eyrie: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/To%20Jour...%27%20Eyrie.pdf
10) Adventure - Dawn Comes Early: ... Coming Soon!
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Maenoferren
Posted: Nov 15 2012, 05:56 PM
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HI Rich, Strangely enough it was the dwarf who lost Endurance quickly and became wearied, but I get what you are saying about moving to a forward stance cheers for that.
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Rich H
Posted: Nov 15 2012, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (Maenoferren @ Nov 15 2012, 09:56 PM)
HI Rich, Strangely enough it was the dwarf who lost Endurance quickly and became wearied, but I get what you are saying about moving to a forward stance cheers for that.

Happy to help. It raised an eyebrow with a couple of the players when the Dwarf player did it first time, but it really worked for him and like I say it is quite a fun element - "dwarf gets hit, becomes wearied, and goes berserk!" smile.gif


--------------------
1) The Fellowship of the Free - a TOR Actual Play thread: http://cubicle7.clicdev.com/f/index.php?tr...&showtopic=3424
2) Three's Company - a TOR Hobbit-only Actual Play thread: http://cubicle7.clicdev.com/f/index.php?tr...&showtopic=4081
3) A collection of additional and house rules for TOR: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/Additiona...use%20Rules.pdf
4) Alternate Journey rules: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/Rules%20-...ney%20Rules.pdf
5) Anyone for Hobbit Cricket? If so, check out my rules here: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/Hobbit%20Cricket.pdf
6) Keep those TOR character sheets clean, use this Scratch Sheet instead: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/Player%20...tch%20Sheet.pdf
7) TOR Character Sheet (use with Scratch Sheet): https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/Player%20...Friendly%29.pdf
8) TOR Tale of Years Sheet: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/Player%20...Friendly%29.pdf
9) Adventure - To Journey's End and the Eagles' Eyrie: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/79541775/To%20Jour...%27%20Eyrie.pdf
10) Adventure - Dawn Comes Early: ... Coming Soon!
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Valarian
Posted: Nov 16 2012, 04:22 AM
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QUOTE (Rich H @ Nov 15 2012, 11:03 PM)
QUOTE (Maenoferren @ Nov 15 2012, 09:56 PM)
HI Rich, Strangely enough it was the dwarf who lost Endurance quickly and became wearied, but I get what you are saying about moving to a forward stance cheers for that.

Happy to help. It raised an eyebrow with a couple of the players when the Dwarf player did it first time, but it really worked for him and like I say it is quite a fun element - "dwarf gets hit, becomes wearied, and goes berserk!" smile.gif

Moral of the story. Don't make the Dwarf tired. He gets cranky and you won't like it.


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Current EU RPG Group Games: European FG2 RPG
Friday (8pm to 11pm UK time; Ultimate License) - Classic Traveller
Sunday (8pm to 11pm UK time; Ultimate License) - The One Ring: Adventures over the Edge of the Wild

Using Ultimate FGII and can accept unlicensed player connections on some of the games.
-----------------
LOTRO - Brandywine Server
Halbras - Hobbit Hunter / Jonab - Bree-folk Captain / Ardri - Dwarf Guardian / Halaberiel - Elf Hunter
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Maenoferren
Posted: Nov 16 2012, 04:35 PM
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The party were attacked by wild wolves and as the elf took the option to be all shooty the dwarf took on two. He ended up lying down for a little rest wink.gif
luckily the hobbit and beorning finished of their wolves and waded in to finish them off.
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