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> Crossing Over Culture Abilities, Hounds of beorn and troll hoards
Captain Poe
  Posted: Dec 8 2011, 03:22 AM
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Beorn has many animal companionsin the book. However, the game only allows woods men to have any such benefit (mechanically, at least). Like wise, thorn and gang found themselvessome fine elven blades. Even bilbo's Coat was originally made for an elf.

Is it game breaking to allow cultural crossovers for situations that fit for the story? beornings with hounds or a dwarf who beorn gave the secret recipe to honey cakes as a reward for assistance?


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jrrtalking
Posted: Dec 8 2011, 06:11 AM
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Narrative wise i dont see a problem

mechanically, you cant know till you try it

the only danger is PCs may lose their uniqueness if three of them had animals

I guess you just create a story why, and cross of one culture-thing and add in another?
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Glorfindel
Posted: Dec 8 2011, 11:23 AM
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I don't see a huge problem with it either, but I would tread this path with caution.

It should be stressed that such cross-culture abilities would be exceptions (even among heroes who are by definition exceptions), perhaps even affecting the standing (or tolerance level) of an individual within its own society.

As for myself, I'd love to play a young farmer Maggot, adventuring with his dogs (hound of Mirkwood) before he settles down to play the part we know of him in LotR.

Glorfindel
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Stormcrow
Posted: Dec 8 2011, 11:29 AM
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Don't limit yourself to the abilities and equipment listed under the chapter on creating characters. If a dwarf acquires elvish weapons or a hobbit acquires dwarvish mail, he can use them (provided he is of an appropriate size). The abilities listed in the book by culture are only for those you can start with or acquire with points.
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BobChuck
Posted: Dec 9 2011, 10:31 AM
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Another thing to keep in mind is that Virtues and Rewards, at least in terms of actual utility and usefulness, are NOT equal, and are very much tied to other aspects of the culture they are associated with.

For instance, look at the Wisdom Virtue "Stiff Neck of Dwarves" - it's one of the best virtues Dwarves get, but is counter-balanced by the fact that Dwarves have a base Hope of 8-10; in the hands of a Hobbit or similar, this Virtue changes from being "a useful temptation" to "a +5-10 bonus to all common skills without any real risk".

Another example: look at the Valor Reward bow that Bardings get and compare it to the Valor Reward Bow that Elves get. The Barding's bow is "better", generally speaking, but the true picture doesn't emerge until one tries to make an Archer Elf who uses the bow, and one discovers that the elf's total Starting Hope is 10-12, which paired with the warrior elf's Wisdom of 1, means that the Elf reward bow is almost useless, at least to characters that have less than 10-20 sessions under their belt - the Barding Bow isn't just better, it's way better, because it's actually useable on a regular basis.

Finally, it needs to be said that "Hound of Mirkwood" is by far the best Wisdom Virtue that the Woodmen get - in fact, for a typical Adventuring Fellowship, it's the only Virtue they have that will get much use (their other choices are 3 healing virtues and an (admittedly very good) awareness virtue, but the only Fellowship role basic Hobbits are good for is Lookout Men, so the Woodmen, with his versatile set of starting skills, doesn't get the slot he's best suited for, unless of course there are no Hobbits, in which case why are you playing this game?).

heck, "Hound of Mirkwood" is among the top five "best" Virtues/Rewards" in the entire game. (for the curious, I'd also list "honeycakes" (Beorning virtue), "King's Men" (Barding virtue), and "King's Blade" (Hobbit reward), with the fifth being either "Gift of Foresight" (Barding virtue) or "Stiff neck of Dwarves" (Dwarf Virtue), depending on the GM and the campaign).

It just strikes me as a bad idea to open up Virtues and Rewards to other cultures without a very good reason. If the player really wants to have a loyal pet dog, why can't he play a Woodmen?

If it's earned through play, after the individual player has invested time and role-playing into it, that's one thing, but just making it a house rule where "if you justify it with a backstory you can take whatever you like"? Extremely bad idea in my opinion.
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Halbarad
Posted: Dec 9 2011, 10:54 AM
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I might allow the purchasing of Rewards from other Heroic Cultures, even at character creation stage, providing the player had come up with a convincing backstory as to why he might have it and I did't think that his having it would unbalance the game.
I suppose that it depends on how well you know your players and whether their motivation is to enhance their characterisation or to enhance their 'cheesiness'. I know my guys pretty well.
For example, a player opts to play a Beorning. His background is 'of two cultures'. He fancies a 'bearded axe' and comes up with the backstory that his father was a woodman and his mother a Beorning. I would allow this but would probably tell him that he won't be able to avail of the 'Giant Slaying Spear' later on. A weapon for a weapon if you get my drift.

I certainly wouldn 't allow the purchase of other cultures Virtues at character creation stage. In fact, some of them are so specific to that culture(stiff neck etc) that I wouldn 't allow cross over with them at all.
I suppose I might treat it like a trait invocation. The player could ask to get it and I would wait to see if anyone objected unless, of course, I was completely against it.


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Kaneda
Posted: Dec 10 2011, 10:47 AM
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I am more or less on your tracks, Halbarad,
only I get more confortable when speaking of Valour Rewards and a more less on Wisdom Virtues; the first, in the end, are things you can get, the others seems to me more related to the way that your hero is.
A Giant-slaying-spear is just that, Brother-to-bears is something your soul reach.
If I've explained myself correctly.


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jaif
Posted: Dec 10 2011, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE
If the player really wants to have a loyal pet dog, why can't he play a Woodmen?


I agree with this sentiment, along with much of what you wrote. I probably wouldn't allow valor rewards to be shared, and wouldn't even consider sharing wisdom rewards.

QUOTE
look at the Valor Reward bow that Bardings get and compare it to the Valor Reward Bow that Elves get. The Barding's bow is "better"


Huh? I think you've confused something here (or my eyes are crossed <g>). The reward bow that the elves get is an extra free shot before combat starts, even when nobody else gets one, unless the elf is surprised. It's a pretty big deal, IMO. I've already stated my opinion of valor rewards that only happen 1 in 12 times and simply make the 1 in 12 a bit better - to my mind the elven bow is a fine reward.

-Jeff
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