Hi, I'm new to TOR and was wondering if anyone can clarify the Encounter rules for me, in particular what's supposed to happen in cases where Introduction rolls are failed? The only relevant rules text I can find is on pg165 of the Adventurer's Book, which reads “A failed Courtesy roll usually prevents a character from taking an active role in the encounter”. So does this mean that when a group spokesman fails an Introduction roll the encounter doesn't happen?

If it helps, the specific situation I encountered that prompts this question was that the Fellowship spokesman totally blew his Introduction roll when meeting Gloin in The Marsh Bell. As Loremaster I had difficulty reconciling this with the need to impart details of the missing Dwarves in order to initiate the planned adventure. I opted to pretty much abandon the Encounter system at this point and accommodated the failed Introduction by playing Gloin as unimpressed with the inexperienced adventurers and altogether skeptical of their ability to get the job done. Consequently he only provided them with basic information on the Dwarves (rather than aid, such as papers for boats) due to his overriding desire to achieve his kinsmen's return.

This seemed an acceptable improvisation but I found it somewhat unsatisfactory to abandon the Encounter rules and wondered if anyone had any suggestions on how this should have been handled if I wanted to play Encounters as intend.

Thanks in advance.

Bruce

In general, Awe is used when there's a group spokesman. Courtesy is usually used for individual introductions, and it's possible for a character to make a very poor first impression if he fails the Courtesy roll.

In your example, I'd probably have allowed another character to take over as group spokesman ("what my cousin was trying to say, sir, was that we are wandering adventurers"), or just switched to individual intros.

Some encounters can be ended with a botched introduction, but not plot-dependent ones like the encounter with Gloin.

You could just handwave the whole introduction by providing a link between Gloin and/or Balin and one or more of the players, since it is an integral part to the story. As is pointed out, Gloin isn't looking for mercenaries as they might decide to rob or ransom Balin.


I admit I frowned when I read there were rolls to be made with Gloin and the possibility of:

If the players met the Dwarf but failed at the Encounter,
or if they played their characters inconsistently during
the investigation, or made their own lives difficult in
some way, the Loremaster should arrange events to
make sure that the players feel that even their bad or
unfortunate choices have consequences.

Example: Adventurers are a curious lot by
definition, but nosy strangers aren’t necessarily
welcome... if the heroes wander across Lake-town
asking questions, their inquisitiveness might be
noticed: the new Master of the town orders that
their reasons to be in the city be known, and sends
six guards led by a captain to find out. Barring
a hostile confrontation, the group will have to
convince the captain of their good intentions, or
spend some days in jail...

I don't disagree with the consequences and I'm actually pleased the author has taken this into account, but knowing how certain players are, especially when they seem to have perpetually cursed dice when it comes to these types of encounters, I could easily see them failing and then taking the attitude of, ok, we're not welcome here and I'm not too keen on spending any time in the gaol, so lets keep to ourselves, get a good meal tonight and move on tomorrow...

And there's nothing wrong with that. But I'd rather just have them jump into it and start out on a good footing with their first adventure. In other words, I was Mr. Railroad. After meeting with Gloin, the training wheels came off.

Mytholder, thanks. That's very helpful.

From your suggestions I get the impression your application of the Encounter mechanics is somewhat more fluid than I was attempting.

This makes me think that, whether spokesman led or done individually, each Encounter (Introduction+Interaction) is perhaps best viewed simply as a series of skill tests (i.e. sequence of rolls made by one or more members of the Fellowship) to achieve the Encounter goal(s). With the test continuing until the total number of failed rolls equals the Encounter Tolerance.

Would you say that's primarily how you have interpreted the rules?

This still leaves some questions in my mind regarding how to gauge whether Encounter goals are being achieved and also doesn't get around situations where you need to impart certain information to further the plot.

Aside from "handwaving" as Evening suggested, I wonder if one option would be to simply roleplay the encounter and only ask for additional Interaction rolls if the Fellowship attempt to get something out of the interaction that the person wouldn't have given them already (e.g. Player: Will you provide us with a boat for the journey? Loremaster: You'll need to make a successful Persuade test to get him to agree to that)?

This is probably how those much wiser than me are doing it already!

I think it sounds like your approach already had some wisdom in it, Fictionaut. And Mytholder's point is a good reminder.

Remember too, that not everything has to have a roll. If it's crucial information that you need to impart to the players, as the Loremaster you can determine ahead of time that it will get passed on. Their success or failure with the introduction(s) might only influence how Gloin responds and reacts to them. With a failure he might grudgingly ask for their assistance or pass along information, but with an extraordinary success he may welcome them with open arms and grant most of their wishes.

In the Fan Supplement in my sig are rules suggested by one of the forum fans for how to deal with exactly what u asked, including suggested examples of "what happens next" - I think they are by JamesRBrown

Robin S

Robin, that's really helpful thanks. The Fan Supplement is a fabulous collection of useful material and as you say, Section I on pg62, "Awarding Advancement Points & other house rules for Encounters by jamesrbrown" gives some great guidance in this area. James's example of talking to Thranduil is particularly helpful. Many thanks for drawing it to my attention.