What animals, beasties, monsters etc from myths, legends and other RPGs would you consider using in TOR, that while not strictly canon (not in Hobbit or Lord of the Rings) still have a Middle Earth feel about them?

Giant birds of other type than eagles.
Mammoths, maybe in the north
The Hobbit has stone giants, so maybe other types of giants like fire giants in Far Harad.
Big cats like lions, tigers etc.

Wild boars seems the most obvious to me.

Bears and boars; wolves are already there. I wouldn't mind introducing some big cat predator similar to the cougar, even if it is an American animal. A far-harad lord and his pet leopard could be cool.

As for mythological animals/beats, I would stay away from Greek anthropomorphism and most medieval "bit of this animal mixed with that other animal... and it breathes fire!" conception of monsters. I could see unique versions of hairy trolls and ogres; Scandinavian/Saxon style, spawns of creatures of the first age, sorts of giant river snakes and lesser drakes, and undead/corrupted versions of all of the above.

Oliphaunts!

Also, here's a link to a Wikipedia page on Middle-earth animals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Middle-earth_animals

In case you've already seen that, I would believe that you could easily pull off any real world animal, assuming it fits that particular environment. With regard to fantastic creatures, as others have stated, I might stick to ones we already know about - trolls, giants, drakes (cold/fire), bats, vampires, werewolves, etc.

The only trouble with sticking with what we've seen is Tolkien wrote about very few creatures.
I'm looking to avoid;
"Look more goblins on wargs"
"Something is attacking the Woodmen village, it'll be spiders, goblins, wolves or bandits."

Middle Earth is a huge place, I want to have a variety of adversaries but avoid it feeling like D&D.

Can't believe I forgot boars!

Definitely want to avoid Greek myths, have looked at Celtic and Norse myths for some ideas.

Like the idea of spawn of Morgoth's First age creatures.

Cold Drakes in the Coldfells and in the Grey Mountains.
Ettins and other Giants in the Misty Mountains, with the Wargs and the Goblins.
Trolls in the Trollshaws.
Crebain in Dunland

Natural fauna that would be dangerous I agree would include wolves, boars and bears.

Don't forget pestilences and poisons as hazards. Unscrupulous or evil-hearted persons acting by treachery and trickery as well as those who act by open attack. Mushrooms and herbs can produce danger as well.

We always loved the herb lists from MERP, they were used in most RPGs we played in.

What is it with people and hating wolves? Wolves rarely attack humans. I don't understand why so many games nowadays have wild wolves as a staple adversary :/

Me too. I think I need to see if I can find it somewhere

The Silmarillion does mention vampires (Thuringwethil, servant of Sauron) and werewolves (notably, the one who killed and was killed by Finrod). Keep in mind, they are evil Maiar possessing animals, not the Hollywood stereotypes. So they would be portrayed as quite bestial, albeit with great power. Count Dracula and the Wolf Man need not apply. And for God's sake, do not make the vampires sparkle![I]

@Beleg - I'm not sure where wolves picked-up all the hate.

I'm guessing there is just something primal and evocative in the relationship between man and wolf (and, snake, maybe?). Clearly, there's a deep connection there . . . but, I'll stop at that, without getting all esoteric and Jungian.


@Format - While I agree players tend to like diversity in their adversaries, as you pointed out however, the fact remains that Tolkien didn't leave much in the way of a fiend folio. In the Third Age of Middle-Earth it seems that orcs, goblins, wargs, spiders, and evil men were, in the main, the only enemies.

If your players feel this is too one-dimensional, you could perhaps up the ante by increasing tactical and strategic gameplay - traps, hazards, terrain, and fortifications, at the squad level as well as unit, map, strongpoint, logistics, and lines of communication and supply, at the macro level.

Remember, practically all of the cultures described in our initial material are, in effect, in a rather permanent state of war with the Enemy. This, I think can make for good background material for an increasingly tactical/strategic game. Obviously, not "world domination," but, no one says you can't develop complex wartime scenarios that will offer your players challenging decisions with uncertain outcomes to balance out the lack of new and powerful monsters with increasing stats and powers to slay.

Hopefully, that might keep them occupied, engaged, and coming back for more.

@Beleg I blame fairy tale propaganda.

Concerning wolves, I believe they would be a significant danger to lone or small bands of travellers out in the wild. They would not likely go anywhere near settled areas (but they are few and far between in Middle-Earth).

There IS a reason why they will killed off in Britain (and I don't think it was just for their fur).

Well that was my understanding of things anyway. I could be wrong.


I did have an idea for two made up enemies from the First Age, that could be used as Balrog subs. I might write them up at sometime, or save them for my Big Bads for my adventures when I write them. They are simply called Ancient Evil and Dweller in the Dark at the moment.

One thing to remember in Tolkien's writing is that he doesn't use 'bestial' type adversaries, they are always 'thinking' creatures. (or they are for the most part, I might have forgotten something). So wild creatures that are only 'beasts' should be avoided where possible, or used sparingly. Wargs are smart, Spiders are smart, drakes and dragons are smart, hell even the trees are smart .

Giant Turtles.
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Turtle-fish

About wolves. First off we are not their prey. Same with big cats. When they grew old and sick they hunt what they can get and if they have to chose between a very fast deer that they know they cant get or a slow moving weak ass human...well I for sure had gone with option 2. But these guys are giving the rest a bad wrap. I live close to wolves here in Sweden and we have had wolves that has gone on killing spree against sheeps, and when it has been shot they can see that the wolves where sick, deranged jaws for instance...

But when people have seen them in the forest no one has been attacked, the wolf runs away....

I'll add my voice to those that loved the herbs in MERP. To me they added a lot of flavour (excuse the pun) to the game.

The small selection of herbs detailed in the Lake-town supplement was a nice touch, I'd like to see more in future books covering different locales.

It's not MERP, not exactly, but I do have a list of Herbs that someone put together for Dec.'s LoTR RPG. If anyone wants a copy just let me know. Also, if you have the MERP book could you not use the list in those books and just port the rules to fit TOR?

@Beran Was thinking about doing that this weekend, that or make up some creature stats.
It's an exciting rock and roll lifestyle I lead

Over the centuries wolves have been the victims of bad press. They raid chicken coops and Sheep farms, so the farmers make them out to be these dangerous animals that need to be hunted down and destroyed before they start carrying off our babies. As has been said any animal (wolf, big cat or bear) the only reason that it would attack a human is if it is sick (rabid), protecting it's young, or really hungry (like from us humans destroying their hunting grounds.) We humans are really good at demonizing things that don't fit into are plans.

Back on topic. It is difficult to add mystical creatures to Tolkien's ME, beyond the ones already there, as it isn't really high fantasy. However, I think you could easily get away with dragons, drakes, wyrms, giants and ettins. You might also be able to get away with some of the Ancient Greek Chimeric creatures as well.

In theory it would be possible, but a major part of these 160+ herbs deals with healing. And since in MERP (and its "parent" RM), injuries were dealt with in very graphic detail, the herbs represent exactly this: You have lots of different herbs (of varying degrees of potency and side-effects) for mending bones, healing nerves, blood vessels, muscles, tendons, cartilage etc. In MERP they were necessary, since the combat injuries were highly detailed as well: You (the player and GM/LM) knew exactly which bone was broken, how bad it was and whether any other organs or tissues were affected. Therefore you needed highly specialized healing, and the herbs were part of it and addressed that need as well.

Similarly, the drugs and poisons that enhanced certain skills or stats were designed for this level of detail as well.

I essence, I'd guess that if ported to TOR, about 80+% of the herbs will have no furher use since their details are not represented by the system. Of course you might retain them and arbitrarily assign TOR's generic damage to specific "realistic" injuries and then use the herbs to deal with that.

Cheers
Tolwen

Well, the list I have from Dec's game is simpler in nature, but not as exhaustive as MERPS.

But, the offer still stands.

Yeah and wolves are my favourite animals too.

Re Herbs - there was a good list in an appendix of the Maelstrom RPG I think (recently republished in pdf form with expansion). It was set in the 16th-17th Century Britain, so pretty good in terms of real-world stuff. Might be useful, I'll see if I can dig out my copy.

What about European bison, Aurochs, add some of those big Elk with massive antlers, the latter two would be a lot rarer. Musk oxen further north, black and brown bears and further north of course the great white bears.
Beaver, muskrat etc.
obviously I am not expecting players to be savaged by beaver's but anywhere near water there could suddenly be a lake where there was once only a stream, make a nice hazard for the scout.

Obviously Aurochs would be a lot more scary, big cow with massive horns and a grumpy temper.
Bison while not normally agressive can become very defensive over their calves or, a wall of muscle, horns and hooves if they stampede.

I dunno, PCs being savaged by Beavers has an amusing ring to it...

Given the UK weather lately I'm thinking flooding would be quite a good hazard!

So dude, what happened to your dwarf?

He was savaged by a beaver.

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Apparently, I'm not the only one growing impatient waiting for ToR's new releases I've researched animals (and some plants) available at different times (not prehistoric, however, & not complete) within Europe, the Mediterranean, & North Africa for hazards, using NatGeo books. Please feel free to pilfer - I haven't compiled stats for them yet, but these may at least save you time.

Forochel

Arctic cod
Harp seal
Atlantic walrus
Beluga whale
Willow grouse
Barnacle goose
Arctic tern
Fulmar (albatross)
Snowy owl
Purple saxifrage cushion
Arctic poppy (light green)
Bearberry (raspberry)
Sable
Reindeer
Arctic hare
Taiga vole
Arctic fox
European weasel
Wolverine
Arctic wolf
Muskoxen
Polar bear

Deciduous Woodlands

Lesser purple emperor
Little owl
Red squirrel
European mole
Fallow deer
Red fox
Badger

River Valleys

European sea sturgeon
Catfish
Purple heron
Great white egret
Greater flamingo
European kingfisher
White pelican
Spiny-footed lizard
Common rabbit
Sable
Muskrat
Eurasian otter
Reindeer
European hedgehog
European beaver
Pine marten
Wild cat
European weasel
Wild boar

Mountains

Tengmalm’s owl
Golden eagle
Dormouse
Alpine hare
Snow vole
Ibex
Marmot
Eurasian lynx
Wildcat
European brown bear

Birds of Prey

Osprey
Peregrine falcon
Lanner falcon

Coniferous Forests

Hazel grouse
Whooper swan
Great gray owl
Golden eagle
Alpine newt
Red deer
Moose
Pine marten
European wolf

Marshes

Water shrew
European perch
Purple heron
Marsh harrier
Muskrat

Bay of Belfalas

Starfish
European harbor seal
Giant devil ray
Common dolphin
Sandbar shark
Mako shark
Herring gull
Eurasian teal
Common crane
Eleonora’s falcon
Lanner falcon
Bearded vulture
Italian wall lizard
Sardinian wild deer

Haradwaith, Near

Desert jerboa
Slender-horned gazelle
Fennec fox

Haradwaith, Far, Jungle

African gray parrot
Red river hog
Chimpanzee
Western gorilla

Haradwaith, Far, Highlands

Abyssinian blue-winged goose
Ethiopian wolf, giant mole rat
Gelada baboon

Haradwaith, Far, Endemic Birds (Sub-Saharan)

Cape sparrow
Lesser kestrel
Martial eagle

Haradwaith, Far (East), Savanna

Lappet-faced vulture
Giraffe
Striped hyena
African elephant

Haradwaith, Far, Grassland Grazers

Zebra
Wildebeest
African buffalo
White rhinoceros

Haradwaith, Far, Great Rift

Flamingo
Johnston’s chameleon
Blue monkey
Mountain gorilla

Haradwaith, Far, Miombo Woodlands

Water crane
Nile crocodile
Dung beetle
Puff adder
Egyptian cobra
Black mamba
Green mamba
Spotted hyena
Cheetah
Leopard
Lion
Hippopotamus

Haradwaith, Far, Coral Reefs

Starfish
Potato grouper
Hawksbill turtle

nice list Mim! Great info.

Lets us not forget the dreaded African Swallow - known for carrying coconuts long distances.

You wouldn't need stats for most of them as they wouldn't be a threat to the party but would be interesting background details.
Some you could stat up. You're attacked by Wolverine "snik!" ... Oh wait, wrong wolverine.

Nice one Nim.
Yeah wish they would get a move on getting more books out not know for my patience.

Are you sure it isn't the European Swallow?

First one that comes to my mind is the Kine of Araw. Boromir's horn was made of the horn of one of these.

From the Encyclopedia of Arda:

However, in Tolkien tales "normal" wild animals seldom take any part in the stories (only as messengers and/or spies, or petty annoyances like the Neekerbreekers) so I don't think we need stats for them.

Evil spiders and wolves and Great Eagles are already covered, but there is one important topic left... horses! Different breeds, mounted combat... I guess Francesco will give us rules for that in the upcoming supplements.

Sir Kickley, Beleg, You two never fail to crack me up when you go down this dangerous road (once we fall into Monti Python quotes we're doomed ). It's good to lighten things up a bit.

BTW, several of you are right in that we won't need stats for most of these beasts of the wild, & that they make background. We already have fairly detailed rules in more than one point in the books, such as the Dwarven Cultural Virtue Ravens of the Mountain.

A few exceptions may suffice, however, & Arthadan makes a solid point concerning the Kine of Araw. We can add a few others that probably need fleshing out - the Boar of Everholt that felled King Folca springs to mind.

Mim, glad to be of service *bows theatrically*

Yey I found my copy of MERP bestiary... and it contains... ferrets... yeah okay and lots of bigger nastir things, but ferrets yey!

Uhm, gald to hear you are happy...Ferrets??

I used to have a couple of ferrets

Shadow corrupted dire ferrets of Mirkwood ... Nasty buggers!

Mirkwood is known for the giant evil spiders but has the Necromancer's influence affected other more mundane woodland creatures? Tolkien has Crow acting as spies, what about corrupted ferrets, badgers and squirrels etc?

Had a go at converting a few of the brilliant MERP herbs for TOR.
Wasn't too difficult, used the codes as is. Difficulty took medium to be moderate and worked out from there. Tried to keep effects similar. Took hits as endurance.

Link in signature if your interested.


Just in case - Nothing in this post or fan made document is intended to infringe on anybodies copyrights or such.

Are all those herbs from the Rhovanion region?

Just did ones that would fit with the Rhovanion region, yes.