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> Foul Reek Mechanics
grandfalloon
Posted: Feb 19 2012, 03:18 PM
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So in the description for the Foul Reek ability, it says a character must "spend a point of Hope to attempt any action other than an attack (including combat tasks). "

Does this mean that combat tasks are allowed, or that they require Hope? My players will be encountering the Marsh-Dwellers soon, and I don't know if they'll be able to Awe the snot out of them like they did with that Troll.
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Skywalker
Posted: Feb 19 2012, 04:16 PM
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QUOTE (grandfalloon @ Feb 19 2012, 07:18 PM)
So in the description for the Foul Reek ability, it says a character must "spend a point of Hope to attempt any action other than an attack (including combat tasks). "

Does this mean that combat tasks are allowed, or that they require Hope? My players will be encountering the Marsh-Dwellers soon, and I don't know if they'll be able to Awe the snot out of them like they did with that Troll.

My legal interpretation brain reads the placement of the brackets to indicate that you can attack or use combat tasks without spending Hope.

My natural interpretation brain reads the brackets to referring to actions that you can't do without spending Hope i.e. only attacks are allowed without spending Hope.


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Francesco
Posted: Feb 19 2012, 04:28 PM
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QUOTE (Skywalker @ Feb 19 2012, 08:16 PM)
QUOTE (grandfalloon @ Feb 19 2012, 07:18 PM)
So in the description for the Foul Reek ability, it says a character must "spend a point of Hope to attempt any action other than an attack (including combat tasks). "

Does this mean that combat tasks are allowed, or that they require Hope?  My players will be encountering the Marsh-Dwellers soon, and I don't know if they'll be able to Awe the snot out of them like they did with that Troll.

My legal interpretation brain reads the placement of the brackets to indicate that you can attack or use combat tasks without spending Hope.

My natural interpretation brain reads the brackets to referring to actions that you can't do without spending Hope i.e. only attacks are allowed without spending Hope.

Your natural side is right, only attacks come free of Hope expenditures.
Sorry for the confusion!

Francesco
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Skywalker
Posted: Feb 19 2012, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE (Francesco @ Feb 19 2012, 08:28 PM)
Your natural side is right, only attacks come free of Hope expenditures.

My years as a lawyer have taught me to trust my natural side more often that not smile.gif


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Garn
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 08:10 AM
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Double Jeopardy springs to mind. Otherwise the character is paying multiple times to perform a "single" action while affected by a condition.

If the character did have to pay twice, and the mechanism was carried further, it could become possible to drain huge amounts of Hope from a character. This might produce the correct atmosphere in encounters with hugely stronger opponents (Sauron, Nazgul, Saruman, Balrog, etc) but would have severe repercussions for the character, and player, effected.


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Valarian
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 08:58 AM
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What the rule is saying is that the foe smells so bad, you are unable to do anything except wave a sword at it. That seems reasonable to me. The use of hope is a mechanic that allows a player the opportunity for their character to so something else, but at a penalty. The penalty being the erosion of the character's hope score.


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thriddle
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 04:33 PM
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My basic problem with this mechanic is that it effectively penalises the player for trying to do anything interesting. OK, not *anything* interesting, but quite a large proportion of the set of interesting things.

I'll be rethinking it. How about treating all PCs as Weary who are in close range of a Marsh Dweller? That seems like a reasonable facsimile of recurrent nausea while fighting.
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Skywalker
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 05:03 PM
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QUOTE (thriddle @ Feb 20 2012, 08:33 PM)
My basic problem with this mechanic is that it effectively penalises the player for trying to do anything interesting. OK, not *anything* interesting, but quite a large proportion of the set of interesting things.

Foul Reek should be using sparingly for this reason. But in the right situation (one where there is a reason to do something other than attack), it actually provides a lot of tension to a scene, which is in itself interesting.

In the case of the Marsh Dwellers, the PCs want to escape. Fighting is a very bad idea. The special ability puts pressure on the PCs, turning an easy scene into a compelling difficult one.

I think the scene would lose a lot of tension without it. I recommend resisting changing the special ability carte blanche and instead look at the specific situation where it is applied.


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thriddle
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 05:33 PM
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Hmm, OK. That's an interesting point. So the main benefit, if I read you right, is that once the PCs are fighting hand-to-hand with the Marsh Dwellers, each attempt to disengage costs a Hope point? Leading them to wonder whether, if they don't succeed, they will run out of Hope first or be killed first? I'm not quite clear where the extra tension comes from.
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Skywalker
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 06:10 PM
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QUOTE (thriddle @ Feb 20 2012, 09:33 PM)
Hmm, OK. That's an interesting point. So the main benefit, if I read you right, is that once the PCs are fighting hand-to-hand with the Marsh Dwellers, each attempt to disengage costs a Hope point? Leading them to wonder whether, if they don't succeed, they will run out of Hope first or be killed first? I'm not quite clear where the extra tension comes from.

Tension arises from risking consequences which Foul Reek emphasises. IME even starting PCs have the ability and Hope to get away without serious risk, no more than a challenging straight up fight anyway. Foul Reek ties in with the scene set up by specifically making that risk seem higher.

When I played this scene, there was mounting pressure to stage a staggered withdrawal, first letting the injured escape through Rearward Stance for free and then frontline fighters struggling to get away. It was more tense than any straight up fight I have played in TOR, being particularly good as it was the scenario finale, and Foul Reek played a part in the set up.


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thriddle
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 02:33 PM
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Thanks. I'm running it on Saturday, so maybe I'll go with it as written and see what happens.
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