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farinal |
Posted: Jan 6 2013, 01:44 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 257 Member No.: 2599 Joined: 14-April 12 ![]() |
I was wondering how did Numenorians managed to defeat Sauron after the fall of Eregion? And what did Sauron do all those years between his defeat and Fall of Numenor? How did he managed to survive the downfall of Numenor and managed to get a physical form during the War of the Last Alliance? Was he so afraid to meet Numenorians in the field that he waited all the time and lured them into the trap of getting him prisoner so he could poison the Numenor from within? But I think the Numenor was already poisoned with anti-elven and anti-valar ideas before Sauron was taken captive.
-------------------- "Morgoth!" I cried "All hope is gone but I swear revenge! Hear my oath! I will take part in your damned fate!"
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Mim |
Posted: Jan 6 2013, 02:33 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 372 Member No.: 2116 Joined: 7-November 11 ![]() |
You sound as if you're having fun with your Second Age project
![]() A brief answer to your question: There were multiple reasons, but Númenórean sea power ranked near the top of the list. The Númenóreans flanked Sauron's armies in Eregion by landing at the mouthes of several of the rivers, most notably the Gwathló. The Dark Lord only escaped to Mordor with a handful of survivors, & it took him many years to regain his strength. The Númenóreans meanwhile continued to explore & colonize the coasts of Middle-earth at strategic points, & established or expanded havens in places like Pelargir & Umbar that contested Sauron's power. He just never gained the power to beat them at sea by direct confrontation, which is one of the reasons that he subsequently submitted to Ar-Pharazôn the Golden. Hope it helps! |
Tolwen |
Posted: Jan 6 2013, 02:36 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 430 Member No.: 862 Joined: 21-January 10 ![]() |
All this is told in the Sil and UT. In short:
Cheers Tolwen -------------------- Visit Other Minds - a free international journal devoted to roleplaying and scholarly interests in J.R.R. Tolkien's works
Other Minds now has a new group in Facebook. Come and join there! |
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farinal |
Posted: Jan 6 2013, 03:07 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 257 Member No.: 2599 Joined: 14-April 12 ![]() |
I do really and I found my knowledge on the details of Second Age events very poor so planning to re-read Akallabeth soon. @Tolwen: Thank you once again now I have a clearer understanding but I wonder why did the Numenorians stopped at that point. They were still allies to the Elves and enemies of the Sauron at the time, I wonder why they didn't followed him into east and didn't continue fighting against him while he controlled the lands and distirbuted the seven and nine. Couldn't even Elves continue fighting? I know they had heavy casualties but so does Sauron and we know they were a strong force in the Last Alliance many years later. -------------------- "Morgoth!" I cried "All hope is gone but I swear revenge! Hear my oath! I will take part in your damned fate!"
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Tolwen |
Posted: Jan 6 2013, 03:33 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 430 Member No.: 862 Joined: 21-January 10 ![]() |
It is a question of necessity, political will and cost-benefit ratio. Penetrating further east would bring them ever more into Sauron's lands and become ever more dangerous. He can retreat using scorched earth tactics (as he did in the Last Alliance), making the campaign at some point moot and likely a total disaster. In a word, at the time they neither had the resources nor the will to push farther. Especially the Elves lacked both; IMO they had enough of war and were not willing to risk further losses and endanger their victory. One of the most important skills of a good leader ist to know when to proceed and when to stop. In the case of the SA 1701, there were no realistic gains worth the price of pressing on. The Rings were top secret among the Elves at the time (mid-Second Age) and the Númenóreans very likely (IMHO that's absolutely sure) did not know about (and were not told by their allies) the Rings of Power at all. The alliance at the end of the Age was exactly that: The Last Alliance. Both Elendil and Gil-galad were well aware that such an alliance was the last chance to stop Sauron. Waiting would mean strengthening the Enemy (Sauron still had not been able to fully rebuild his power when he struck Gondor) and eventually and inevitable defeat. It was a gamble where everything was risked and no reserves held behind. Either they would defeat him in this last hard, all-out push or they would be utterly defeated. That war was no easy sledding, and eventually it dragged on for twelve years, including the vicious and brutal seven-year siege of Barad-dûr. Cheers Tolwen -------------------- Visit Other Minds - a free international journal devoted to roleplaying and scholarly interests in J.R.R. Tolkien's works
Other Minds now has a new group in Facebook. Come and join there! |
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farinal |
Posted: Jan 6 2013, 06:12 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 257 Member No.: 2599 Joined: 14-April 12 ![]() |
And when did the Exiles learned about the One Ring? During the Last Alliance? Or was Isildur cutting it off was a coincidence?
-------------------- "Morgoth!" I cried "All hope is gone but I swear revenge! Hear my oath! I will take part in your damned fate!"
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Tolwen |
Posted: Jan 6 2013, 06:21 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 430 Member No.: 862 Joined: 21-January 10 ![]() |
IMO it is likely that the Elves finally came up with the truth during the Last Alliance. IMHO that's the point when the Númenóreans probably finally asked some questions... Please note that I had a lengthy article about the Rings of Power in Issue #3 of Other Minds where this question is covered as well and in more depth. See the link in my signature for the place to download this and all other Issues (unless you already did ![]() Cheers Tolwen -------------------- Visit Other Minds - a free international journal devoted to roleplaying and scholarly interests in J.R.R. Tolkien's works
Other Minds now has a new group in Facebook. Come and join there! |
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farinal |
Posted: Jan 6 2013, 06:43 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 257 Member No.: 2599 Joined: 14-April 12 ![]() |
I am in the Facebook group but haven't read any of them yet. Will do now
![]() -------------------- "Morgoth!" I cried "All hope is gone but I swear revenge! Hear my oath! I will take part in your damned fate!"
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farinal |
Posted: Jan 6 2013, 11:19 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 257 Member No.: 2599 Joined: 14-April 12 ![]() |
I have read the article and it was very, very good. I enjoyed it greatly! Thanks for such a great magazine! I feel lucky to have all these issues to read now
![]() -------------------- "Morgoth!" I cried "All hope is gone but I swear revenge! Hear my oath! I will take part in your damned fate!"
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Tolwen |
Posted: Jan 7 2013, 02:13 AM
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Group: Members Posts: 430 Member No.: 862 Joined: 21-January 10 ![]() |
Thanks for the feedback and your assessment of OM as a whole ![]() Have fun reading it. I guess you also saw the PDF's of our predecessor magazine Other Hands? In OM Issue #10 you can read the story of its digital "resurrection" ![]() Cheers Tolwen -------------------- Visit Other Minds - a free international journal devoted to roleplaying and scholarly interests in J.R.R. Tolkien's works
Other Minds now has a new group in Facebook. Come and join there! |
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