I search the forum for similar treads but couldn't find any,

So anyone got any idea of how much gold and silver does 1 point of treasure worth? I'm all for abstraction, but I have a feeling I'm quickly going to get tired of saying "gold and silver enough for X number of treasure points..."

The only reference to money that I know about is the 12 silver pennies that Barilman had to pay for Bill's pony, and the eighteen pence he reimbursed Merry. Could that form baseis for 1 treasure point or is that pocket change?

On a related note, is LotR using the 12 pennies to 1 shilling, 20 shillings to a pound exchange?

Glorfindel,
You might want to take a look at the thread Money In The Middle Earth, A currency system for TOR.

If I recall correctly, the PDF link in the thread includes a conversion rate between the different types of coins commonly believed to be in circulation in Middle-earth. I cannot recall whether their was a Treasure Point conversion / comparison though.

I believe there was a breakdown of the value of one Treasure Point ... maybe, on the last page.

whooooooo...

Thanks, this will do perfectly. As for the conversion, I don't need anything very accurate. This will do wonderfully!

cheers guys!

A single Treasure point is enough to live at a Prosperous standard of living for a month (AB, pg. 116). I generally rule that most equipment can also be replaced for a treasure point or two, if the players don't want to do a favour for the settlement doing the replacing.

I am also in favor of introducing coinage into TOR, but I think that the lack of detailed equipment and supply lists are an even bigger flaw in the game. I should be able to tell whether or not I'm carrying a bit of elven rope in my backpack or on my pony, or how to purchase some medically useful herbs.

I don't see this as an issue, Otaku-sempai. Equipment and purchases aren't the focus of the game, and I've found (at least for my group) it often detracts from the experience to keep track of money and equipment in too detailed a fashion. As always, YMMV.

This may just be a matter of the style of gaming that I'm used to. The problem is that this is also the style that the other members of our group are accustomed to. Our ongoing campaign is an AD&D 2E game using the "Skills & Powers" system. It is very different from TOR.

Indeed it's different. In fact it's refreshingly different from all other games I've ever tried (though there may be others out there that are similar that I have yet to try).

What I've learned running TOR as LM is to simply loosen control a bit that is the usual style of D&D; give the players the benefit of the doubt usually when it comes to these types of things. Quibbling over such nuances will detract from the overall experience - of the story, the heroes, their quests, and the excitement.

My advice - follow these guidelines.

"If there's an obvious reason they should have it - then of course they do."
(such as an elf having some elf-rope).

"If there's no obvious reason why they shouldn't have it - then assume they most likely do - unless it greatly unbalances the game."

"If there's doubt - one way or the other
(such as a non-elf having elf-rope), have a player invoke a trait that could qualify for having prepared to have it."
such as "I wish to invoke my Adventurous trait - Calenor would no doubt have a spare flint and steel to start a fire in just such an occasion."
Or Elf-rope for this case.

"I want to invoke my leechcraft trait - Calenor should have the necessary items to make this happen"

If you think it fits the description of the trait, award their creativity with allowing it. Chances are these types of granted requests are going to add to the story - not detract.

Now I wouldn't allow "I want to invoke the adventurous trait - my character would definitely have a ballista with zip-line attached, a disguise kit, and a row boat stowed away for just such a getaway occasion."



In the end so long as you're consistent as LM with your rulings, your players SHOULD learn to respect your decision. If you're allowing 75% of the simple requests without question, the one out of four that you balk at, they should accept without a big to-do about it.

I have for years played with characters having access to a reasonable amount of equipment fitting to their calling and wealth level. Some games have an equipment or resources roll, make the check to see if you have one or you left it in your other backpack.

I find tracking every single item gets tedious. For ToR I think noting unusual items is a good idea, especially if it can be done I character, like Sam getting the coil of rope in Lorien. In Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit of course Sam had pots and pans with him, that is exactly the sort of thing Sam would carry. Neither Hobbit had a battle axe tucked among their gear, that would have been out of character.

As for the worth of a treasure point, remember that not all of that value will be in easily portable gems and jewels nor in readily spendable coins of silver and gold. I remember an article in Dragon years ago suggesting antique furniture, tapestries, rugs, paintings, and other bulky and fragile valuables.

@ Otaku and SirKicley

I'll meet you guys halfway; I like to abstract-ize the ordinary and pay special attention to the extraordinary. In some situation (but admittedly less in Middle-Earth setting than in your typical high fantasy setting), money can become part of the extraordinary.

As for how much a point of treasure worth, I want my players to immediately be able to recognize that the purse full of silver pennies dropped on the table as a payment is worth 1, or 2 points of treasure (or that on the contrary it doesn't worth much); I want to say in character that the quest will get them 15 golden crowns etc. In other words, "treasure points" should be like endurance points; they are part of the mechanics, but they should never be mentioned in characters.

For that, i need to set the equivalence with the players.

cheers

Not to mention consumables - such as exotic pipe-weeds or exquisite wines.


And I'll definitely mirror what you said - if it makes at all any sense "in character" for one to have it - then don't deny it - especially if it's not game changing.

"I invoke my cooking trait - no doubt I have pots and pans" - Sam's player


"I invoke my smoking trait - of course I have a few spare pipes among my pockets!" -Bilbo's player

Exactly, invoking the proper trait gets it for you. Rolling the Eye of Sauron means that the water has got into the matches, your pipe stem broke, or your pipe weed pouch has a hole in it.

Some idea of how much things cost is useful. If a pony is four silver pennies, then a flagon of beer should be a few coppers not a gold crown. Equally if a flagon of ale costs several silver pennies a gold crown or two for a pony starts to seem like a bargain.

Knowing that Bilbo's mithril shirt was worth the whole Shire (or at least a prince's ransom) makes clear just what a treasure it really was.

While on the subject of treasure, it is a great tough that in Middle Earth even minor magical items come with a history and heritage. It is not just a "sword +1/+3 vs orcs" it is Orcrist the Goblin Cleaver forged by the Elves of Gondolin. It is not just Elven rope, it is woven by the maidens of Loth Lorien from spider silk and their own tresses.

Bard's Black Arrow with which he slew the dragon had been passed down hand to hand, father to son.

There is a history, a depth and a richness.