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> Ill Luck For Players- Sauron Strikes
EN 429
Posted: Oct 9 2012, 08:56 PM
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How is everyone handling the misstep or 'fumble' of a Sauron rolled by the players. I am pretty much winging it right now. For example, a fumbled song or inspire to summon more enemies, in combat I will trip a player, break a bowstring (a round to fix), or something of the sort.

I thought it might be fun to begin compiling a critical failure list depending upon the common skill group used and combat.
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CraftyShafty
Posted: Oct 9 2012, 09:09 PM
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Given that (a) a failed roll is usually it's own penalty and (cool.gif it will happen one action in twelve, I'm not adding things to make it worse. smile.gif
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Garn
Posted: Oct 9 2012, 09:55 PM
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That pretty much covers it. Whatever the character is doing puts them at disadvantage for later actions. But the exact nature depends on the skill used and the situation.

If however you can't think of anything, the character just substantially fails in their task.


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Beleg
Posted: Oct 9 2012, 10:17 PM
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Usually I just have it as an automatic failure, unless the player was being stupid. Rolling an Awareness check to see what they could see from a hill for instance, when it's obvious the character would be able to see X without having to 'roll for it'. In that case I said the character slipped on a rock and lost one Endurance point (yes I'm a mean LM)
I was trying to get my players out of the habit of spamming diplomacy, perception and insight equivalents as they were used to doing in D&D


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Halbarad
Posted: Oct 10 2012, 01:32 AM
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I am playing RAW. That is, rolling an Eye of Sauron is not a Fumble unless the character is attempting a Called Shot. In normal circumstances it simply counts as a Zero to add towards the required TN roll or prompts a Called Shot from your opponent in combat.
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Throrsgold
Posted: Oct 10 2012, 02:13 AM
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For melee combat and thrown ranged weapons:

Eye rolled, the weapon twists in their hand.
Eye rolled and it's a fumble (i.e., rolled a Eye and fails the attack roll), I have them roll an Athletics check. If they succeed, the weapon almost slips from their grasp; if they fail, they fling their weapon away (for a thrown weapon, it's not in a good direction)!

For archers:

Eye rolled, roll a d6: on a result of 1-3, they have just one last arrow in their quiver.
Eye rolled and it's a fumble, they are out of arrows!

For Awareness checks:

Eye rolled, they just don't notice.
Eye rolled and it's a fumble, they either fixate on something else or get completely wrong information.


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Valarian
Posted: Oct 10 2012, 03:41 AM
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I use it generally to add complication to the character's lives. The feat die counts as zero, no automatic failure though. If the roll passes the TN despite the zero, then it still counts as a success.

I tend to use the formula used in other games:
Great/Extraordinary Success = Task succeeds AND ... (some additional benefit)
Normal Success = Task succeeds
Success + Eye = Task succeeds BUT ... (some complication)
Failure = Task fails
Failure + Eye = Task fails AND ... (some additional bad thing happens or the failure is spectacularly bad)


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Dankers
Posted: Oct 10 2012, 09:12 AM
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QUOTE (Halbarad @ Oct 10 2012, 05:32 AM)
I am playing RAW. That is, rolling an Eye of Sauron is not a Fumble unless the character is attempting a Called Shot. In normal circumstances it simply counts as a Zero to add towards the required TN roll or prompts a Called Shot from your opponent in combat.

This is how I've been handling it as well and it works great. Although I tend to view an Eye rolled outside of combat as a potential opportunity for the Enemy to take notice of the heroes. For me it's a narrative cue to remind the players that they should be worried/afraid.


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farinal
Posted: Oct 10 2012, 10:00 AM
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We usually play it like this, say it's a Song check. The player rolls the die and if it's succesful, he sings the song good. Like with proper rhymes and meaningful stuff. But if the roll is a failure then he starts mumbling and says foolish things. I think it is nice to make the players also play the role of fail dice.


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Glorfindel
Posted: Oct 10 2012, 10:50 AM
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QUOTE (Dankers @ Oct 10 2012, 09:12 AM)
QUOTE (Halbarad @ Oct 10 2012, 05:32 AM)
I am playing RAW. That is, rolling an Eye of Sauron is not a Fumble unless the character is attempting a Called Shot. In normal circumstances it simply counts as a Zero to add towards the required TN roll or prompts a Called Shot from your opponent in combat.

This is how I've been handling it as well and it works great. Although I tend to view an Eye rolled outside of combat as a potential opportunity for the Enemy to take notice of the heroes. For me it's a narrative cue to remind the players that they should be worried/afraid.

My take as well. I play eye of Sauron RaW, plus a mechanical "cue" signaling the enemy's on the move, when appropriate
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Rich H
Posted: Oct 10 2012, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (Valarian @ Oct 10 2012, 07:41 AM)
I tend to use the formula used in other games:

Great/Extraordinary Success = Task succeeds AND ... (some additional benefit)
Normal Success = Task succeeds
Success + Eye = Task succeeds BUT ... (some complication)
Failure = Task fails
Failure + Eye = Task fails AND ... (some additional bad thing happens or the failure is spectacularly bad)

Yeah, this is the way that I do things as well. I feel it adds variety and interest by using the Eye of Sauron as a complication rather than just within a binary pass/fail structure - particularly the success but rolling an eye combination. That kind lead to some very interesting opportunities.


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Robin Smallburrow
Posted: Oct 13 2012, 07:43 AM
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Like the other replies, I tend to go with whatever enhances the Story with regards to Player fumbles. However, I do use a House Rule here that I feel makes players a bit more aware of Shadow Points:

House Rule 1: Whenever a 'Hazard' or something 'bad' is called for in the game and the rules usually require a 'random' PC to be selected, the PC with the highest Shadow Points will be the one selected in most cases.

House Rule 2: If a PC rolls an Eye and also failed in a test/task, what results the loremaster deems appropriate will depend on their Shadow score in relation to their Hope score - the consequences will be much severer if their Shadow score is close or greater than their Hope.

Why? This is to duplicate the 'Subtle Magic of Middle Earth' that tends to punish bad deeds, etc. I also think that it will make PC's more desirous of trying to Heal Corruption at Sanctuaries...

Robin S.


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Tensen01
Posted: Oct 13 2012, 04:14 PM
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I am personally not a fan of the concept of a Fumble in general. Generally people who are skilled at something don't screw up that badly, they just fail. So I've been playing it as just a Zero.

Also, I found in my game that if they got an eye on the feat die they probably weren't going to succeed the roll anyway, which, as stated earlier is often penalty enough. And if they did succeed it showed that they were skilled enough to overcome, and thus do not deserve to be penalized.

However, just thinking on it, I would probably institute some sort of fumble only if the Feat die was the only die rolled, i.e. attempting a roll with no skill rank. That I could see being a legit reason for a full-on fumble.

Also, I like Valarian's "Degree of Success" idea as well.


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