Hi,

We wanted to play, but some of the Fellowship was not available, so we had to wait before beginning "Tales from Wilderlands" and crossing the forest. I wrote them a short one-shot adventure that keeps them around Esgaroth. I would like to share it, and maybe get some suggestions as to how I could expand it later, because my players seemed to want to know more.

Context: the characters have finished "the Marsh Bell" and have been asked by Gloin to take the invitation to the Lord of the Eagles, but one of them is busy, and another one has stuff to do in Dale.

Part 1: at some appropriate moment, the characters hear a cry for help. They find a badly wounded dwarf surrounded by three bandits [1]. They fight or scare them away, but the dwarf falls inconscious. He wears ragged clothes, has a broken axe, and obviously has travelled a lot. When he wakes up, he tells them:

Dwarves characters may make a Lore roll to check that Thorin did have an older brother, that was thought to be long dead [2]. If they don't, Gloin or some other dwarf that knew Thorin could tell them. But they won't find a dwarf that knows Thibur's face.

Thibur says he left his family long ago to rescue his father from Dol Guldur, but was captured too, and spent decades in captivity, until one day, the shadow left, and he got free. He has wandered since that day in Mirkwood, and fought many evils, searching for a way to escape and reach civilization.

It soon becomes evident that Thibur expects to free the moutain from Smaug, and has no idea what happened. Presumably the characters will tell him, and he will look sad or happy at the appropriate places, and somewhat angry that his cousin Dain is currently King Under the Moutain.

Part 2: unless they decide to trust Thibur blindly and lead him to the Moutain themselves, they probably will contact Gloin, the only dwarf of importance they know. Gloin is suspicious when he meets Thibur, but Thibur says he has a proof that he will show only to King Dain: he has the Ring of Thrain! He really can show a ring, but he only will let Dain touch it.

Gloin writes a letter that will allow the characters to easily obtain an audience with the King, and asks them to lead Thibur to the Moutain, but warns them to keep an eye on him. He sends a crow to Gandalf, because a ring is involved.

Add any events you wish during the travel, depending on the time you've got. In my game, they stopped at the Drunkenstone in Dale, and Thibur got angry at the sign. Afterwards, he wanted to enter through the secret gate in the Moutain because he feared for his life if he arrived claiming he was the real king. But he got convinced that it wasn't very honourable to enter by a backdoor.

Part 3: the party arrives at the gates of Erebor. They ask for an audience, and it is granted easily. They asked for secrecy, so there are few people in the room: only king Dain, two guards, and a human dressed in a grey cloak and hat, standing in a corner, smoking a pipe. The characters talk for a while, introduce themselves and Thibur. Then he talks and tries to be polite with Dain but it is obvious that he doesn't like him. At one point he draws the ring out of his pocket, and shows it to the room. Gandalf in the corner becomes interested. Dain gets up, wants to see the ring. He puts in on his finger and...

... nothing happens with the ring, but Thibur draws a dagger and stabs the King. A flash of light (from Gandalf) sends him to the ground and the guards arrest everyone. Dain of course survives, and Thibur will be interrogated when he is fit. Later, the characters are freed because Gloin says he sent them and they have nothing to do with the murdering attempt, but maybe have them do a few Awe/Persuasion rolls in their defence first.

The end

So... what now? My first idea was that Thibur was absolutely not Thorin's brother, and did not come from Dol Guldur, but had some reason to kill Dain, and used this story as a way to reach him. Another option, suggested by my players, is that he might really come from Dol Guldur, but he might have been driven crazy. Either he believes he is the king but he is some random dwarf, or he really is the king, but he is too crazy and corrupted to be able to rule. In any case, he of course didn't have the real ring.

I see many possible developments from this point, but I am not sure they would lead to an interesting story. It was, after all, meant to be a pointless one-shot with a funny similarity with the book and how Thorin arrived in Erebor. Any suggestions/advice?

[1] these are the same bandits they will encounter when playing "Don't cross the path", I like having recurring characters.
[2] not canon, as far as I know.

Yusei,
With regards to this portion...

This can certainly be used within your own campaign, but as always I advise caution when it may lead to a digression that contradicts canon or the official timeline (current or future) because it might make future product releases difficult to use within your campaign.

But with that said, let's explore...


Part 0
With that said... I would suggest you go with a Crazed Dwarf. You would need a lot of backstory for this idea, to get the various names, dates, places, etc all correct. But basically you have a dwarven mother who has a child without revealing the father's name for some reason. However, during the time of conception Thror was in the vicinity of the mother's town, general or maybe knew her. Her son, who is not actually related to Thror, grows up nameless (effectively) in a society that holds lineage as being vital; after all, if asked he is "Thibur, son of no one" (although he would probably use mother's name - but considering how father-centric dwarven culture is, that might be more embarrassing than being no one's son). Anyway, he ends up with a complex about his paternity which becomes ever more worrisome and a central focus to his life.

Eventually someone mentions to Thibur he looks a bit like Thror. Astounded, he does some research, realizes the timing is right. Tries asking mom questions, but she's being glib or not answering for whatever reason. So Thibur starts running scenarios in his head (mom was the king's mistress? raped? whatever) but basically deludes himself into believing a bunch of circumstantial evidence amounts to a false reality. That he is, in fact, an illegitimate son of Thror, King Under the Mountain.

Maybe, as you've suggested, he does go wandering after Thror, around the time that Thror leaves dwarven society. He arrives too late and has to follow what clues he can about Thror's . Unfortunately he is so deluded at this point that he heads off in a completely irrelevant direction; engaging in adventures that are unnecessary and depressing, wearying, and hope-depleting (think "Don Quixote", but sad rather than comedic). Strangely, in one way or another, Thibur manages to survive and escape on a regular basis, always a bit worse for wear.

At some point he is captured by a middling-level Sauronic force of some kin. So it could be some Angmar border patrol, goblins in the Misty Mountains, orcs around Mount Gundabad, Gray Mountains or Withered Heath, whatever. He's captured, tortured and abused more than normal, but not critically. In the process he reveals his supposed pedigree, which the Evil Leader scoffs at (hmm, orcs might be best for this as they're really aware of dwarven genealogy) and eventually forces Thibur to admit he's made it all up, that their is no proof of any of it. At which point, Thibur totally snaps. He has wasted his entire life and undergone hardship for what he knew (but refused to accept) to be a lie because he was just another commonplace dwarf, not one destined for greatness.

He suffers a bout of madness with the result that he completely disassociates what just happened. His mind latches onto the easiest lie, he is the son of Thror. He's never lied to himself. He has absolute proof he is the son of Thror. This snap occurs right in front of the Evil Leader, who is so amused by it, that he informs Thibur he is in possession of his father's ring.

Time passes with various episodes of further torture, days of solitude in a dank cell, etc. Not too long, maybe an extra month or so. Just time enough for the Evil Leader to arrange a complicated bit of mummery to allow Thibur to be released, in possession of the False Ring. In their last meeting, Evil Leader probably tells Thibur that Dain II Ironfoot is now King Under the Mountain, possibly suggesting he stole the throne from Thibur knowing the illegimate son existed. Evil Leader leaves the False Ring within Thibur's sight and wanders off; Thibur gets free, takes ring and escapes.

Another couple of sad adventures for him before he finally encounters the party in the manner you suggested.


Part 4
Having all of your events happen, now Thibur has to be dealt with on the Dwarven level. Unfortunately maybe his ravings are heard by others and, just as with Thibur himself, there is just enough possibility that the entire dwarven succession of the Longbeard clan (Durin's Folk) is called into question.

The issue must be resolved peacefully, without just doing away with the mad dwarf. Requiring either that the character's back-track Thibur's adventures (assuming his failure to defeat Dain totally unhinges him so further information is not forthcoming) or if told, they must somehow convince the mother to reveal whom Thbur's father truly was. Assuming she's still alive. Or even willing to consider the idea.

This could become very "The Scarlet Letter", with a story of it's own that can be as complicated as you want to get into. Heck, you might be able to lift the story almost verbatim (although I don't think their are priests in Middle-earth).

Once you've dealt with the mother (in whatever fashion), know Thhibur's lineage and have absolute proof of it, the characters must return with it to Erebor.


Edited: Part 4.5
Oh and lets not forget the possibility that Evil Leader hears about all this and attempts to interfere with the Party's investigation and/or their attempt to return with the evidence (whether this means an NPC or an item) needed to resolve matters. Particularly if he sent info up the line and other Servants of Evil are on the lookout! (And this could be an interesting mini side storyline arc.)


Part 5,
Now things get complicated. It really depends on where you want to go from here, but either have Thibur die in captivity, or maybe some well-meaning dwarves have released Thibur believing his story, or best yet, some greedy dwarves released Thibur in an attempt to gain control of him and use him as a means of gaining control over the Lonely Mountain.

This would put everything that Dain II Ironfoot has done since the Battle of 5 Armies into a precarious situation. The monies that Bilbo was paid after everything was done? Illegal. The monies spent to rebuild Dale? Illegal. The treaties between the Dwarves of Erebor and it's neighbors? Illegal. All royal gifts (Marsh Bell!)? Illegal. All commerce with the Kingdom Under the Mountain? Illegal.

The implications get as complicated and far reaching as you want from here. Efectively this is a dwarven equivalent to the Kin-strife.

Good and interesting idea Yusei and great post Garn!

Thanks, glad you like the suggestions Farinal.

Good stuff Yusei and Garn.

The idea is a really good one for a short interlude or even a protracted campaign using Garn's suggestions. I was having a little trouble with buying into Thibur as the elder brother of Thorin but the idea of a deluded nameless Dwarf inventing his own creation myth, that's brilliant and I will certainly be using that.

Yes, I generally avoid messing with canon in a non ambiguous way. But in that case, I needed to because otherwise the adventure would have stopped with Gloin saying "nope, he didn't have a brother". On the other hand, Thorin's brother was said to be "long dead", so I doubt it will mess with the future releases.

I really like your suggestion for Thibur's reasons for believing he is Thrain's son (it's Thrain, intsead of Thror, isn't it?), and I think that makes a much better story than him really being Thorin's brother. I think I will continue on this path, as it is the one less likely to mess with the official events regarding Erebor. For part 5, I will probably set Thibur on a quest for redemption after he realises his mistake and his condition. I like sad stories, and it will allow me to bring him back later, maybe trying to fight the Shadow by himself, at some point during the Darkening of Mirkwood campaign.

Halbarad
Oooohhhh, I'm brilliant! I feel all sparkly! Thanks for the compliment.
(Ok, I know that wasn't the most appropriate smiley, but the only other options were a female Fairy or a humongous Valentine's Day heart with a couple making out underneath it... ... ... ... By some strange coincidence this image just seemed to work better for me!)



Yusei
You are correct. Thrain II is the father of Thorin Oakenshield, Frerin (deceased brother) and Dis (deceased sister, and mother of Fili and Kili). I tend to mix Thrain and Thror up - their names are too similar. Particularly for people who are only mentioned in passing through forefather references.

You could still use him as option 5c (figurehead puppet) and after the party returns with evidence, then they have to rescue Thibur. Maybe in the process he can be cured, recant his genealogical claim and then you could always bring him back later. Just a thought.

I think I will us this as my first adventure - I really love Garn's ideas. I think it might get even more interesting if Thibur actually is a bastard of Thrain with a somewhat legitimate claim to the crown, but not remotely fit to wear it. Alternatively, he could even be a bastard son of Thorin!
Okay, this might be turning the whole saga into something like A Song of Ice and Fire, with bastards at every corner and few to none Kings, be they legitimate or not, fit to rule. Anyway, I think it could be an interesting twist if the players, looking for proof that Thibur's claim is false, actually turn up with proof that it is true. What do they do? Try and put a madman on the Throne? Or cover it up?

If this were anyone but Tolkien, I would definitely say go for it. But Middle-earth is a bit too pure for Arthurian passions (or historical realism in this case), at least with regards to romance.

Glad you liked the suggestions.

There are lots of ideas about adventures with mad dwarves in the background on these forums.

(nothing wrong with that, it's just an observation).

It's a good story idea, I might steal it.

Much to my surprise, I discovered in the LotR appendix A that Thorin did have a brother, who died long before the adventure. His name was Frerin (2751-2799). What happened to him isn't said, but 2799 is the year of the Battle of Nanduhirion (aka Battle of Azanulbizar) before the East-gate of Moria, where Dain II returns to the Iron Hills and Thrain and Thorin go the the west.

One can assume that Frerin disappeared during the battle, and was thought to be dead, but with no real evidence. This would give some credibility to the story of the would-be King under the Moutain. Fourty-six years later, Thrain is imprisoned in Dol Guldur, and it's plausible that his lost son would try to rescue him, get caught, and imprisonned until the Necromancer left.

Also, Thorin had a sister that I forgot about, Dis, mother of Fili and Kili, of course. There is no death date in the family tree, so she is probably still alive by the time of the adventure, and would be the best person to get in order to identify the dwarf.

Maybe next time it will be mad hobbits, but they are somewhat less intimidating as foes!

Frerin was the younger brother of Thorin and upon his Brother's death would have been next in line of succession. The date of his death seems to indicate that he died in 2799, not that he disappeared. If he had disappeared, there would surely be a question Mark instead of a date of death.

Still, it's a nice bit of researching and our mad Dwarf can now present himself as Frerin rather than Thibur. Using Dis to reveal his delusion is a nice touch a well. This adventure really does have some legs to it.

There is the possibility that there was a question mark, but that after a few decades with no news, it was assumed that he died during battle, and that his body was not found. Which is plausible since there probably were thousands of deaths, and part of the fights happened in Moria.

In any case, a hundred and fifty years later, I'm sure the PC will have some doubts, at least until they find some dwarf that has seen the body with his own eyes.

So perhaps the mad dwarf is who he says he is. Frerin may have wandered deep into Moria and saw some of the things that Gandalf hinted lurked in the deep places of the world.

Maybe a twist to your idea is that his mind is completely broken but he is in fact Frerin son of Thrain. But it is not he who wishes to claim the throne but a secret group of dwarves who want to use him as a puppet to usurp Dain from the throne.

If it works for you man, go for it. The definite date of death means that I can't buy into that scenario though. Each to their own though.

But who wrote the date of his death down (Tolkien obviously but I mean in world ) and when?

Maybe the adventurers uncover the conspiracy to usurp Dain from the throne before it becomes common knowlege that Frerin has returned. They may decide to keep the fact that it indeed really is the real Frerin secret and the date of his death in the record books is presevered.

Or maybe when the real state of Frerin's mental well being becomes known, Dain and the adventurers decide to destroy/hush up the evidence that it really was Frerin son of Thrain and encourage the widely held belief that it is in fact an imposter. They whisk him off to the dwarf loony bin and thus ensure that the date of his death remains the same as in the record books.

Or some other reason - such as Dwarven pride ensures that Frerin's death date remains preserved.

Of course all my scenarios above assume the adventurers succeed in stopping the conspiracy, if they don't then the history books and family trees are the least of the Loremasters problems

The problem is that Dain,not Frerin ,would be the usurper. Dain must be the true King and fall defending the gates of Erebor in a few decades time. That is my major problem in buying in to this.

Yeah, right.

Apparently you haven't seen a Hobbit Fair when a Best Food title is to be determined. Then and only then will you see just how wicked Hobbits can be. Things get downright ugly very quickly.

Then, of course, there was the problem a few years back. Sixteen was it? Anyway, the Best Chili competition a few years back got so bad that a law was passed to exclude any such event from ever taking place again. Although, to be accurate, while the chili was blamed, it was not the sole culprit. It probably wasn't wise to have the Best Cheese, Best Asparagus Dish, Best Egg Dish and Best Chili testing all on the same day.

At least not if you were standing downwind.

Using Dis within this adventure idea is a really nice touch. Bravo!

But I agree with Halbarad that Dain II Ironfoot's legitimacy as the King Under the Mountain cannot be invalidated or contested too seriously. If nothing else it will act as a divisive element that Sauron would manipulate into a catastrophic event. Particularly since Sauron knows he's got a war in the making and something like this would be the next best thing to him getting back his ring. (Remember, subtle manipulation of truth and lies is Sauron's specialty - he's better at this than Morgoth.)

Assuming Sauron could take advantage of such a situation, it would probably lead to the total collapse of the defenses of northeastern Middle-earth, placing all of Rhovanion (but not Wilderland) in Sauron's control. Lothlorien might be lost as well (cannot recall exactly, but 3rd wave of attack was stopped with help from others - if they are defeated, Lothlorien might fall). This would result in a corridor of evil: Angmar, Mount Gundabad, Wilderland/Rhovanion, Mordor, Harad. Which would allow drastic re-organization of troops, focusing on Rohan/Gondor and Eriador. Something I don't think any of these nations could have withstood. Even in a cursory manner.

Precisely my thoughts Garn.

Ps thank you for your kind words about my previous contributions.

Anyone else with schoolboy(girl) French raising a smile at the brother-figure being called "Frerin"?

Despite not being list in the index, Frerin is on the Appendix A family tree of the Line of the Dwarves of Erebor. He is marked as having died in 2799 (dagger-mark: "a premature death, in battle or otherwise"), which is the date of the Battle of Azanulbizar. and the body text does state that he "fell", which would usually be taken to mean "died". I didn't find any evidence to specifically confirm Tolkien Gateway's assertion that he was therefore a burned dwarf.

But for storytelling purposes, a wilful reinterpretation of this point to create your own 'lacuna', is perfectly justified -- as long as the main sweep of history isn't changed as a result.
I like it.

Cheers,
--Os.

Osric,
Ack! I completely missed that - and it is so obvious. Hmmm... that makes Dis, according to Google Translate:

French: say
Czech/Slovak: sharp (musical, I think), D sharp
Danish: mist
Haitian Creole: ten
Latin: wealthy, profitable, productive, fecund
Romanian: early
Swedish: haze, film

Obviously the French or Latin would be the most likely source for Prof Tolkien. I'm going with the French*, which works nicely with the idea of Dis being used to prove / disprove Thibur's claim of kinship.


*: Since I cannot imagine any woman being named profitable, productive or fecund and not beating the heck out of the person bestowing it, even in an imaginary setting, I'm going with the French. Of course, she could just be a gossip or chatty, but at that point I'm back to getting beat up by imaginary people again. I'm sure my (imaginary) therapist has something to say about that.

I'm French, so yes, I noticed the strange occurence of "frère". -Rin is a common ending for dwarven names, and Fr- occurs also, for example in Fror. But there is no other Dwarf in the family tree with a "e" in his name.

I doubt Dís comes from a french word, but why not. There is a "í" instead of a "i", and the name is probably pronounced with a vocal "s", more like "ten" than "say".

Naaaah! Hobbits are ALREADY mad.

It is known.

"Since I cannot imagine any woman being named profitable, productive or fecund and not beating the heck out of the person bestowing it, even in an imaginary setting, I'm going with the French. "

Dis (Disir pl) were also Norse female divinities; it means "Lady". Since the Professor used Saxon and Norse myth as his basis in his stories I would go with this as the origin of the name in question.

Ah well that would be a problem wouldn't it.

Although there is story potential there as well. Maybe the Pc's or a certain Grey Pilgrim has to convince Dain to hush up the truth about Frerin, the strength of the North may count on it. Letting a mad dwarf take the throne would not be a very sensible thing to do.

Or maybe Frerin in one of his more lucid states realises that he is in fact bonkers and runs off on a suicide mission to the Withered Heath in shame.

The whole point of what I'm getting at is the potential for the heroes to do something important for the safety of the North that does mean that Dain is still the king when the War of the Ring takes place. First they learn of the plot to bring Frerin back. Then they investigate the truth behind the claim. Then they learn of his madness. Then they have to stop the scheme from happening. Then when it all comes to light they still have to convince Dain not to step down in place of his clearly mad relative. (Dwarven stubborness and all that). You could base an adventure around this I'm sure and if done right still not mess with the Lore.

Of course the imposter route is probably simpler, but this would make for a more tragic tale I think.

I like both versions, and I think they make both tragic tales. The mood is different, though. In one case, you have the tale of a deluded Dwarf, corrupted by some evil darkness, that I would set on a redemption quest, possibly with the help of the PCs. All in all, it remains a very classical adventure. In the other case, things are very political, with lots of conspiracy and secret plots. Difficult decisions are to be made, maybe against what the characters' ethics would dictate, for the better good.

I don't know which one I'll pick for my game, but my decision will be based on the mood I want the adventure to have. I'm generally not that much into political plots.

I suggest you keep an open mind and see what your players come up with. They may fill in gaps in the story or notice flaws than you can use to make the story better on the fly!

Yes, that is generally a good advice. Don't get too attached to the plot you wrote, as the players might suggest something better. But we're not exploring Thibur/Frerin's story right now, we're playing Tales from Wilderlands. I need to have a general idea of what will follow if I want to drop hints during the adventures. For example, if Frerin's story is becoming public, and if some dwarves are starting to believe him, then the company may heard rumours during their travels. This would give some weight to, for example, a request for help later on.

The wonderful thing about rumours is not all of them are true!