(Sorry, I would have used another Marsh Bell Thread, but couldn't find one.)

I just finished re-reading "The Marsh Bell" and noticed a few problems. It's a nice scenario, and I especially like the atmospheric, but short descriptions of places and the integration of the rules for journeys and encounters.

However, I have two major problems with the scenario:

The structure:
At no point there is a concise description of what actually happened to Balin and Oin, and when. Instead, information about their journey is presented only when the characters are supposed to find them: what the Elves have to say, the camp, the sunken boat, tracks near the dark pool ... That works well as long as the adventure happens exactly as planned, but as soon as the players try to find out more, it presents a problem for an inexperienced LM. Furthermore, the characters are bound to ask Balin and Oin about their encounter with the Marsh Dwellers. As a LM, I have to deduct from the evidence presented what might have went down. In a short scenario like The Marsh Bell, this is relatively easy, but it's still annoying.

The logic of the plot:
This is connected to the structure, because to me it seems that the author of the scenario has thought backwards from what the players are supposed to find and when they are supposed to find it instead of forwards, starting with "What happened to Balin and Oin?" As I see it, the whole thing just doesn't add up.
First of all, why would a group of only two, Balin and Oin, set out to explore a (potentially dangerous) new route, carrying a precious jewel on an important diplomatic mission?
Second, why have they, according to the elves, just "disappeared" one night? First I thought that they were taken by the marsh dwellers, but then, later on, the characters find their boat that seems to have been attacked. "Oh, that's were the marsh dwellers took them then", I thought, but then the PCs can find the tracks of the two dwarves at the dark pool - so they have been enchanted b the marsh bell and walked into the pool? If the scenario simply provided the LM with a "what happened to Balin and Oin" box, I wouldn't have to speculate about this.

My fix:
The Problem of the structure is easily fixed: I just made up a scenario of what happened to Balin and Oin that made sense to me and wrote it down.
First of all, I decided that the way through the marshes and along the southern road to Mirkwood has actually just been explored by another dwarven company and deemed safe. This company didn't encounter the marsh dwellers because it didn't carry anything valuable to attract their attention.
So Balin and Oin set out on it, accompanied by two dwarven warriors, with their present to the Eagle King. The marsh dwellers "feel" the presence of the precious gem (especially since it has been tainted b Smaug's greed) and attack the dwarves at night when they make camp near the ruins. One of the dwarf warriors dies, the other flees wounded (shame on him!), Oin is severly wounded and taken prisoner alongside Balin. both are dragged away to the underground lair . However, the Marsh Dwellers can't find the gem because it is protected by dwarven magic. That makes them really mad, and now they are a grave danger to anyone entering their territory. As in the official scenario, Balin has taken shelter in the wine cellar. He can't try to run, because Oin is severely wounded and he can't carry his companion alone.
That means that the PCs will find most of the evidence at the camp site where the dwarves disappeared: Their boat will still be there (undamaged), as well as the hidden present for the eagle king and maybe some evidence of the fight.

(Some of these things I have changed around because I will play the scenario with a group of Silvan Elves starting out at Thranduil's Hall - they will pick up the wounded dwarf and then set out to find his companions, not necessarily out of the kindness of their hearts, but because the hidden jewel drives the marsh dwellers crazy and Thranduil want's something to be done about them. The PCs actually might decide to keep the jewel or give it to Thranduil. Bad blood between dwarves and elves is always interesting!)

There is a lot of room for LMs to put the pieces in a more consistent story. Agreed that a new LM may struggle with it - but luckily the rules for the game and the instructions and ideas on how and when to apply them throughout that adventure help significantly.


As for my run through as LM, I did the following:

1) the PCs found a broken/sunken canoe that the dwarves had - upon inspection they found claw marks found on the sides - hinting that something came up from under the water and attacked in order to swamp the boat - it later crashed and wedged against a fallen tree/stump. They tracked that the dwarves fled on foot.

2) A preliminary skirmish of the marsh dwellers attacked the PCs the first night; they determined these were the culprits of the claw marks on the boat.

3) They find the barren bald hill in the marsh with tell-tale signs of dwarves passing - troll tracks, and lots of blood and dwarf tracks leading into the woods. It was getting dark so they camped there to resume the hunt in the morning.

4) they were attacked by the troll that night - it was wounded recently - obviously by an axe to one of its thighs. They killed the troll. They then figured out that the dwarves were similarly attacked and fled into Mirkwood in the middle of the night to avoid the troll.

5) The PCs entered the forest tracking them, were suprised by Galion's team and after a roleplaying encounter, the PCs got Galion to inform them that the dwarves fell into a pit trap as they rand heedless into the dark forest; a pit trap that the elves created in the forest for prey and lurking creatures, and they left them there overnight trying to figure out what to do with the dwarves (Galion recognized the dwarves from 5 years ago when Bilbo freed them). He's not evil, he wasn't going to let them die - but he couldn't deny the irony that they were in his capture once again. After an encounter and discussion between the PCs and Galion they were allowed to leave w/ the dwarves if they promised not to return to the borders of the woods.

6) the dwarves were injured both by the troll and the fall into pit. They returned to the bald hill only to find that their secret stash was found and stolen - recently. They tracked more of the marsh dwellers realizing who the thieves were and went to the ruins at that point; the dwarves stayed behind because they were injured.

7) PCs entered the ruins, found the locked box for the eagle, and escaped the marsh dwellers. Finished the quest by delivering the box to the eagle at the pre-arranged meeting spot - the eastern most point of the Old Forest Road

Yeah, its not explicitly said but it is easy to present your own take of events, which is beneficial in its own way. I personally prefer prewritten scenarios that leave non-essential story elements vague so I can more easily bring my own GM skills to bear. It also allows the scenario to be altered depending on how the GM wants to use it in a larger story line.

As for Balin and Oin, my take is that they are experienced enough to travel by themselves without guard, even with a valuable gift. There could be many reasons why a cadre of Dwarven warriors were not available as well. I took it that they intended to take a safe route by water, but were attacked one night by a Troll forcing them to continue on foot. This brought them to the Marsh Dwellers and then one or both were enchanted by the Bell.

Hm, I must confess that I don't get this: Of course I alter every scenario I use in one or the other way for my campaign. But to me, this actually becomes easier if the information is presented as clearly as possible. It makes it easier to keep track of the implications if I change something.
For example, if I change the time and place where and when the dwarves were attacked, I have to keep track of whether it still makes sense that the present for the Eagle King is hidden at the camp site. If all of the information regarding the journey of the dwarves were presented at one place, this would be immediately evident. But if the events are left vague, I might overlook the problem, leave the present were it is and notice only after the fact that it doesn't make sense any more.
the less vague the information in the scenario is, the easier it becomes to change things and keep track of the implications (for me, at least).

I wrestled a bit with this too, and if you can search the forum, you can find a thread where I suggest (and Francesco agrees) that the camp should be closer to the Marsh Bell .

My structure is this: Gloin wants a message and a gift taken to the Lord of the Eagles. Balin and Oin are actually more interested in seeing whether the Old Forest Road is fit for travel now that the Necromancer has left Dol Guldur, but offer to take the message so long as they can go by this more dubious route. Gloin reluctantly agrees. Gloin is worried about his gift falling into the hands of Thranduil, but Balin dismisses this as unlikely now that relations are improved.

Things go fairly well at first, although they have the impression (correctly) that they may be being watched. The Wood-Elves are monitoring their progress, but eventually cannot keep pace with their boat. The dwarves make camp a little way after (not before) the confluence with the Rotting River that comes down from the Mountains of Mirkwood.

Awakened by a noise in the night, Oin sees strange lights about 200 yards away, and rouses Balin. Their first thought is that perhaps these are elves, and maybe Gloin was right to worry. So as a safety precaution against capture, Balin hides the necklace in the camp site, figuring he can easily come back for it later if it's a false alarm.

They hastily gather their gear, take the boat and paddle to the glowing area. Leaving the boat to investigate further, they are attacked by the troll, and although they deal it several heavy blows, it becomes apparent that they need to retreat or risk the entire mission. So they run back to the boat and paddle madly downstream, with the troll in hot pursuit. It's nearly an hour before they can be sure they've shaken it off, and by then they are in among the ruins, and hear the sound of a tolling bell...

The Elves find their abandoned camp site the next day but no sign of the dwarves. They don't wish to travel further south, as they are already far from home.

@ thriddle:
Thanks, I really like that version - I think I'm going to use it, and add another one or two dwarves so that one can survive the Troll attack, get lost in the woods and tell the Silvan PCs a little bit more about what happened (of course, he will keep his mouth shut about the present).

Fair enough, you have a good point. As said, I found the details of what happened to Balin and Oin relatively peripheral to the main action and it was easy to come up with an explanation if needed based on what's there. I have also seen the scenario spun in different and interesting ways, as a result. But yeah, a clear sequence would have been useful too.

How many gaming sessions has it taken you to complete the scenario?

Thanks,

HN

This one I have played and it took two.

1st one was getting up to the Bell . 2nd game was the ruins and Bell, and then a Fellowship Phase for the final two hours (of six) of our get together.

As for the likelyhood of Balin and Oin setting out alone to deliver the gift, remember that Thorin Oakenshield set off with 12 Dwarven companions and a Hobbit to win back the Kingdom Under the Mountain from Smaug the Great and Terrible.

Obviously these dwarves are Herod of great renown.

Wait, are you saying that the second half alone took 6 hours (including the 2 hour Fellowship Phase)? If so, my experience was much different. Our session lasted roughly 7 hours, with the first (almost) 2 being character creation (everyone sharing 1 book and familiarizing themselves with the setting). We finished the whole adventure in the remaining 5(ish) hours, though the ending was slightly rushed due to time constraints, and we glossed over the Fellowship Phase (when I play again with that group I'll have the session start with it). The company did notably fail all of their Awareness checks while in Mirkwood, and so never noticed the Elves tailing them. There were also 3 players (plus me, the LM), which obviously facilitates speedier play than a larger party. All "tangents" that the heroes went off on ended up being resolved very quickly; by and large they followed the direction of the adventure as-written without too much prodding (of course the adventure is really straightforward).

Yes that's about right. First couple hour on the first day was character creation, rules clarifications, and simply building a fellowship which was done via roleplaying.

After that met Gloin, headed out down the river. Encounter w/ the lake-men, dealth with a couple EYE hazards, encounter w/ marsh dwellers, searched for dwarves, slept, encouter w/ troll. Dealt with another eye hazard the next day - crebains.

Encountered the elves. Lots of roleplaying. steered towards ruins. End game one.


Game two - started with another encounter w/ marsh dwellers, encounter w/ the hangman's tree thing, stumbling into ruins, finding dwarves rescuing them and the pc that succumbed to sound, avoided treasure lust, and headed towards the actual meeting place of the eagle (which I set up as the eastern most edge of the Old Forest Road where it exits Mirkwood. Then Back relatively safe. Had an interesting encounter on the way back of something moving and making noise in the night - singing in the moonlight was a sickly grey looking creature singing and eating a fish......it took off when he noticed PCs never to be found.

Debriefed via roleplay with the dwarves including Gloin, then spent 2 hours on Fellowship Phase to prepare for their goals for next adventure.

Which starts next week Friday - (see my Dorwinion / Iron Hills posts in that thread for details).
Returned to Esgaroth - wra

We took two sessions ... each approximately 4 hours, but I added in a bit (about 20-25 minutes) at the end of the second session to include my setup for the campaign's primary storyline (i.e., discovery of slain Dwarves and Goblins, a Royal Messenger's satchel, and back-tracking the Goblins in attempts to discover what appeared to have happened). Also, my group did not interact with the Elves in Mirkwood (the heroes never noticed them). Lastly, we were playing at my store, so we had a few interruptions from customers inquiries and observers. I'd say it would take about 6 hours to run.

This makes sense, as it sounds like you played through quite a bit of material that wasn't spelled out in The Marsh Bell. My group completely glossed over fellowship creation (both groups did, actually; most likely because it's a new game and they wanted to start playing as quickly as possible). They didn't really trigger any hazards, never noticed the Elves, I didn't have any encounters with the Marsh Dwellers outside of the ruins, and they returned to Esgaroth after finding the Dwarves, whereas your group continued along the Forest Road.

To clarify regarding how long the adventure takes, I'd say most groups will probably need at least 5 hours to complete just the stuff actually written down. My group pretty much plowed through everything at a steady pace, the rules were grasped really quickly, and crappy Awareness rolls caused them to miss a few things (including the Elves).

If I'd run it with my second group (who tend to go more in-depth with roleplay) it probably would have run closer to 6-7 hours.