Long time ago that I was not writing new material for TOR so I have created a new heroic culture for the game: The Men of Rohan.

It is true that there were two contributions in English (Men of Rohan and Rider of Rhovanion) in the Cubicle 7 forums, but none look like the spirit that Tolkien gives to the riders of the Mark in his novels.

I hope that you like the contribution and that you send me any comment about it.

Men of Rohan

... Those supplements were really nice and I thought they were in the spirit of Tolkien. I'm sure the authors thought that too!

This one also looks nice - lovely layout. Will have a read through tomorrow and see if it's as good as the other two fan supplements. I'm sure it will be - thanks for sharing it!

I missed the prior Rohan supplement so I'm happy to have this one. Considering the geographical proximity of Rohan to Wilderland I think this may be quite useful to me. From what I've seen it seems quite well written and I very much like what I have already read.

Thank you!

Was there an "Official" Cubicle 7 Rohan Supplement already? How did I miss that? I agree with Rich, this one is very well done indeed.

Nope. No official ones yet...

Previous text about rohirrim in this forums are unnofficial too.

Pelease, report to me any mistakes you find in the translation.

Thanks

Of course, i'm sure the authors thought that too, but i didn't and write this new version of Rohirrim. I only wanted to say it.

Out of curiosity Chrissett, what did aspects of my supplement did you think weren't in the spirit of Tolkien? What aspects of Halbarad's Riders of Rhovanion did you disagree with too for that matter

I've tried convincing myself that something has got lost in translation in the original post.

To be fair to Chrissett, the original Riders of Rhovanion PDF suffered because it was never really sure whether it represented a completely new culture or the Rohirrim in disguise. Thus we had several people with conflicting ideas working on it and a mish mash of ideas.

The re- imagined Riders of Rhovanion will be appearing in the next issue of Other Minds. It's a somewhat different beast. It's been edited by Tolwen (and Osric) and our very own Rich H helped out with some fine tuning of the rules.

OTOH, I really liked the Riders of Rohan PDF and I think that to suggest it was not in the 'right spirit' is completely unjustified.

Thanks Halbarad

Hi everybody,

First, I want to ask for excuses to Halbarad and Beleg, if they have felt troublesome with my post. It was not my intention. I like that there are several options that the players could choose, and i hope see soon an official Men of Rohan write by Francesco

What i didn't like in the previous texts?

Riders of Rhovanion is not a complete heroic culture: It does not have backgrounds and only 3 virtues. In addition, they are not Rohirrim, are northmen of Anduin of an timeline previous to TOR. But it is the version that more I liked.

Men of Rohan v1.1: I think that it is a version more nearby to the movies than to the books. Bows and Spears like principal weapon? Axes? Only 3 virtues. The basic attributes in the backgrounds don't follw the TOR mathematics.

My intention has been to create a new version of " Men of Rohan ", which I believe more balanced and nearby to the novels. I do not want to say that the previous ones are bad versions.

The bows and spears were actually based on the fact there are archers mentioned when dealing with the Rohirrim in regards to the Ford of Isen (I'm pretty sure that's where I got it from) and the axes were more a personaly preference. Regarding the attributes, I will admit wholeheartedly that despite being informed of the way the mechanics work, I never got around to changing them due both to real life commitments and laziness. The reason there are only 3 virtues are that two of the virtues have multiple stages, and one is still required to achieve a Wisdom score of 6 to aquire them all (should be at least, I haven't looked at it in ages)

I must say, excellent presentation!

One question though, why long sword instead of sword or (swords) in the bow package?

The original incarnation of Riders of Rhovanion was conceived as being a seventh background option for Dalemen. That's why there were no backgrounds. The problems arose when we started to look at an actual culture of Horsefolk and the PDF was made available before it was complete.

The Riders of Rhovanion/Horsefolk/Marhathiuda are going to be in OM14. They are a fully developed Heroic Culture and have been included into the Demographics of Rhovanion (that Tolwen is slaving away at) and do exist in the standard TOR timeframe of 2946TA.

Chrissett, your Rohan rules look great!

Still, doesn't Horn of Rohan grant an infinite combo? You spend 1 Hope point for 3 Fellowship points, which in turn may be exchanged for 3 Hope points. Hope seems to be an extremely limited resource usually, I'm not sure whether it's good to boost it like that.

Because Tolkien only mention long sword when write about Rohirrim...

You can blow the horn only one time per scene, so you only gain 2 Hope point.

What exactly is a 'scene'?

The subdivision of an adventure, in which the time is continuous and the setting fixed.

It is a term that is used in TOR.

Umm.. I'm guessing this is a translation barrier. I don't recall ever coming across the word 'scene' while reading the rule books. Do you perhaps mean a gaming session? That's the only thing I can think of... :/

The term "scene" appears in the english version. In the virtue Hound of Mirwood, for example.

Nice work.

Still, can't you just blow the horn every scene? I know this would look silly, and would be ridiculous story-wise, but 2 Hope every scene may be worth it.

Chrissett, this is a great addition. I agree about the previous attempts at Rohirrim or Rohirrim-like cultures. They just were not completely right, although excellent first go-rounds.

I've read through yours, and find that they are very close to what I have come up with for my own version (I gladly admit I plagerized heavily from the Men of Rohan v1.1).

I'll admit, I could not find good art for my "Riders of Rohan" culture, so I stole your art for my player's cultural pdf.

Differences between what I went with and yours:
1. Unusual calling: I chose Scholar, since the Rohirrim have no book-learning.

2. Cultural Blessing: My "Rider of the Mark" grants a favoured Body to all Attribute bonuses while on horseback.

3. Weapon Skills: I went with 1) Sword 2, Bow 1, Dagger 1; or
2) (Spears) 2, Sword 1, Dagger 1. I didn't want them to be as good with bows as Elves.

4. I did not add the fan Trait of Horse-riding. I felt that a high Travel along with the Cultural Blessing covered most of it. I wanted to stay away from fan Traits if possible.

5. Cultural Virtues:

Warhorse (similar to the Woodmens' hound)-Support: roll feat die twice for Travel, Awareness and Battle rolls; Battle Trained: add basic damage rating to all attacks on horseback; Charge: may attack Adversaries in a Rearward stance and trample two in close combat stances for 2 Endurance damage.

Horn of the Mark (Rallying Call-At the start of combat, spend a point of Hope to give each ally an additional Battle success die during combat; Call of Victory- During combat, spend a point of Hope to
reduce an Adversary’s Shadow points by one.

Horseman's Bond-At the end of every session you can regain 2
Hope points if your mount is uninjured.

Swordmaster & Birthright (similar to Barding)

6. Cultural Rewards:

Mail of Cunning Make (mail hauberk)-roll feat die 2x on protection test

Horseman's Shield-add parry bonus while mounted and in combat

Blade of the North-on G rune, damage plus called shot

Again, really excellent work.

So it is, my apologies. So I'm guessing a scene is battle then? I've honestly never used that word, and now I'm rather confused :/

About rohirrim weapons...

Swords are his first weapon, so (swords) is the first option.
They have lancers, but only to flight on horseback, only longs spears. So (spears) is not an option.
Many rohirrim warriors and hunters are archers.

I believe spears are actually mentioned regarding troops not on horseback. Also, I'm unsure as to why you had an issue with my version of the Rohirrim having bows when yours does too...
And long spears and great spears aren't the same thing. A great spear could not really be used from horseback due to the balance, which is why it has to be used two handed

ThrorII:

What did you mean by the "horseman's Shield" reward?

Don't shields always add to your parry bonus? Even while mounted? What makes this different from another shield?

I'm guessing (and I fully accept I may come across as full of myself here) that the horseman's shield ThrorII is using is the one in my pdf, in which case it adds the bonus to your parry when you are using a bow while mounted

I personally rule (without official horse riding rules) that most people cannot hold the reigns, hold a weapon, AND hold a shield at the same time, thereby losing the Parry bonus.

The Horseman's Shield will allow the Rider of Rohan to keep his Parry bonus.

Just a personal decision I've made.

Ah, fair point ThrorII. Probably is a bit difficult

Sorry Chrisset but, with the greatest respect, I believe that Spears should actually be the principal weapon of the Riders of Rohan. Eomer's Eored, when we meet them are all armed with tall spears of ash(?). I believe that the regular Spear fits the bill perfectly and agree with Beleg on the unsuitability of Great Spears. It is likely that, as these people are basically Goths with Anglo Saxon names, they fight with their spears in an overarm style rather than in a couched 'lancer' style.
Each of his riders have a 'long sword' at their hips. Now this may be a little pedantic but, this is not the same as having a 'Longsword'. (However if the inclusion of Longswords in TOR is because of that particular line, then there is probably a case to include a 'Tall Spear' as an intermediate weapon between Spear and Great Spear based on the same terms of reference.)

When Erkenbrand and his thousand men on foot appear at the Battle of Helm's Deep, Tolkien makes reference to them being armed with swords, but does not mention Longswords.

At the second battle of the Fords of Isen, Grimbold forms his men into a shield wall as they lack the horses to fight in their preferred manner. IMO, this suggests to me that their armament must have been suitable for this eventuality. Longswords would be unwieldy in the confines of the shield wall, even ordinary swords of a similar historical period would still, mainly, use the edge rather than the point and compromise the coherency of the Shield Wall. I could probably be convinced that standard Rohirric swords are similar in design to the historical Spatha and thus suitable for both use as a horseman's weapon and to stab with from behind a wall of shields.
However, to the best of my knowledge, the spear remains the optimum choice for a warrior in a shieldwall utilising reach and the ability to remain in a compact formation.

In short, I could see the Nobles, Knights and Captains being armed with Longswords. I would envisage that normal sized swords (or even Large Knives/Shortswords like the Scramasax) would be the weapon of the rank and file warriors.

Apart from disagreeing on the weapons choices though, your Pdf is very nice.

Thanks for your words Halbarad

When Aragon meets Eomer, Tolkien said "In their hands were tall spears of ash, painted shields were slung at their backs, long swords were at their belts, their burnished skirts of mail hung down upon their knees", but there were a patrol on horseback and there had archers too. In the charge of helm Tolkien said "Their backs were to the swords and spears of the Riders and their faces to the valley" (These were the charge on horseback) and "Behind him, hastening down the long slopes, were a thousand men on foot; their swords were in their hands" (These were the men of Erkenbrand, on foot).

I think that the long spear and great spear are the same weapon in the game, at least they are similar. Another thing would be a Lance. Certainly the Rohirrim spear is not the short spear that can throw (the "spear" of the game). With regard to the swords, it is necessary to see that swords use in Gondor, because they are the same swords. I think that the swords of the Rohirrim (and Gondor) are more similar to the long swords of the medieval period than to short swords of the Roman period.

In any case, I do not want to begin to discuss what version of Rohirrim is better. There are three versions, that every player chooses the one that more he likes.

I agree and have not said that any of them, barring the original 'Riders of Rhovanion' PDF, were any better or worse than the others.

I simply disagree with your weapons choices in the same way that you disagreed with Beleg's choices and have provided my reasons for the disagreement.

On a final note though, Erkenbrands men were on foot. That is abaolutely correct but, read Battles of the Fords of Isen (Unfinished Tales) and it's quite easy to surmise why this might be. The horse herds had been scattered following the first battle. Erkenbrand arrived to take over from Grimbold, probably accompanied by his personal guard (probably an Eored).
Gandalf arrived and sent such men as remained mounted with Elfhelm and the remnants of his command to secure Edoras(probably including many of the men of Erkenbrands personal retinue). A number of warriors were set to burying the dead and securing the Fords against further aggression from Isengard(probably what was left of the Levy of Westfold).Finally a thousand warriors(or so) marched overnight, under Erkenbrand's command to the relief of Helm's Deep. It is my opinion that these men were, for the most part, unhorsed riders and not infantrymen.

It's all a matter of personal taste, but I think that the Long Swords vs Longswords comment is the telling factor for me.
You advance the idea of a rider clan caste among the Rohirrim. I'm not getting that from them, sorry. Also you have a background of mixed Gondorian heritage. I, personally, would have went with mixed Dunlending.

Once again, it's all a matter of personal taste and while yours is a really good effort(and very pretty), it still hasn't 'nailed it' for me. Hopefully we won't have too long to wait for an official variant, eh?

Since I raised this point too, allow me to comment on this point as well.

The roman galdius would be, in TOR's terms, a Short Sword
The viking/saxon/medieval sword would be the (regular) Sword
The bastard sword / claymore / one and half handed sword is called Long Sword in TOR.

Litteral transaltions from The Hobbit / LotR can be misleading, even corresponding to two two different items in TOR's codifications for the same item in the book depending on which chapter you get the description from. Legolas 'long hunting knike' could be just as well a dagger or a short sword, depending on how much emphasis you put on the word 'long' or 'knife'.

The use of Long Swords on your document surprised me because I always imagined the Rohirim to carry broad-bladed, small hilted swords akin to thoses used by 9th-10th century saxon / danish cultures, rather than Narsil/Anduril looking 1 hand and 1/2, long hilted swords like the 15th century bastard sword.

'findel

Agree with Glorfindel
Short sword Gladius, based on Tolkiens works I would go Dark age swords/Spatha as the long sword.

However...The Bastard sword just doesnt seem right in the middle Earth. looks cool in a film but, just doesnt feel right. Hand and a half swords etc, pretty tricky using a sheild especially a single grip type add that to being on horseback... just not going to work.

Ridden many a horse in battles (pretend ones as both a lancer and earlier periods)
overarm use of the lance would be apropriate for this period. I use the terms lance to differentiate from a thown spear. However you can couch a lance on an early saddle, you just need to learn how to balance yourself

Legolas with a long knife... scramsax/seax springs to mind here....

In all honesty the princi[ple weapon of the early cavalryman was the spear/lance you need to be able to reach over the top of the shields (hence all the pics have the raised arm ) a sword is a secondary weapon in a battle the lance/spear will be bust pretty quickly ( or embedded so far into someone's chest that you cant pull it out) so the secondary weapon would be used.

but to be honest it is all down to nomclature... Its what people do with them in the game that is the important thing. bottom line is it is fantasy made up by a clever chap in England... if he was aound now we could ask him, but he aint... so therefore we have to take the word of various hobbits, dwarves and elves - each who would have their own idea on what a long sword or great spear is.

Chrissett has hit the nail on the head and I would agree with him wholeheartedly
"In any case, I do not want to begin to discuss what version of Rohirrim is better. There are three versions, that every player chooses the one that more he likes. "

Cheers
Steve

Thats's why you learn to neck rein the horses and use your knees and body weight to steer...
Maybe reduce the parry bonus for a horse orientated type person??? Or the horsemans shield has a different hand grip that allows the user to avoid the central hand grip and basically strap it to his arm allowing a free hand???

Steve,
No one is discussing which is better. Chrisset doesn't like a few things about Beleg and Telcontar's PDFs. I think there are things that don't strike the right spirit, with me, in his.
That's it in a nutshell.
Honestly speaking, I wouldn't use any of them as complete pieces, but I would happily steal bits out of all of them for my own take.

+ 1

totally agree
I hadnt meant to say anyone was better, just more you pays your money and takes your chioice.