The money does not have relevancy in the body of work created by Professor Tolkien. The economy does not have a relevant role in his books. Nonetheless, economics are a part of Middle-earth society, which is a part of the TOR game. Besides, players always like to spend money during the games. Part of the enjoyment of the game, for some, comes from spending money freely and lavishly. Your character starts the game well off, and in time he may become incredibly rich. And there are many things to spend money on in the Middle-earth.

Money in Middle-earth

Y ahora la versión en español Dinero en La Tierra Media

Nice read. I gave it a cursory glace overview and will spend more time drinking it all in later. But from what I can see this is a job very well done.


@ Tolwen - so thinking back on our conversations for a ZINE; 2 questions come to mind


1) would this be E-Zine worthy of a submission
2) how would you rate it's Tolkien (Pipe) Relevancy (Gold, Silver, Bronze), or TOR (ring) relevance (Gold, Silver, Bronze).

[just so that we have a little baseline to start with]

I skimmed it over, and my first impression was that I'm impressed by the attention to detail! I really like the overview of the different coins, as even though it probably won't come up in-game it adds quite a bit to immersion if you can show players what the different coins look like.

At some point my players may want to delve into this in-game a bit, as some of them like browsing equipment lists; in any case it's nice information to have at hand. Thanks for posting it!

Is that your work? I mean, text and drawings? It's amazing...!

I have included a short piece on currency in TOR in the upcoming Lake-Town sourcebook coming with the screen (thanks to Shane Ivey) but I am humbled by the lavishness of your article. I came to different conclusions as far as the equivalency to Treasure is concerned, based on Shane and my own research, but I am impressed!

Francesco

Thanks Francesco!!!

I supposed that there would no be currency rules in TOR. I want to read your conclusions in this matter!!!

This is a fantastic piece of work.

I wonder about the availability of coins in the Wilderland though. I imagine that the return of the Dwarfs to Erebor and the 'liberation' of Smaug's treasure horde has released lots of coin into the local economy of Laketown and Dale.
I was thinking that setlements that are further afield might use 'Hacksilver' rather than coins for ease of carrying and as a very obvious social statement. A Beorning or Woodman warrior with his arms festooned with hacksilver bracelets is clearly a proficient and important warrior.

The weights in this piece of work will prove invaluable in that circumstance.

This is an excerpt from the article about currency contained in the Lake-town description:


Silver and Gold
In the North, a form of currency is starting once again to circulate, especially in the city of Lake-town and along its main trading routes. The coins that are exchanged are mainly gold pieces, silver pennies and copper coins.
Gold pieces are very valuable and rare - the majority of those that are seen in Dale, Erebor or Lake-town comes from the treasure of Smaug, and most people show some propensity to hoard them and put them away. Silver pennies are more common - a gold piece is worth about 20 silver pennies. Copper coins are those of the least worth, with 1 Silver penny being the equivalent of 12 copper coins.

Francesco

I think this is very thorough work. However, with the best will in the world, I would very much appreciate the courtesy of a request to use my artwork.

Hi Jon,

I’m sorry if the use of your illustrations has angered you. Because this is promotional material for the game and it has non-commercial use, I thought that it would not be a nuisance. If you want, I withdraw your illustrations from this one and future works.

I hesitated to set a gold piece equal 24 silver pieces or equal 20 silver pieces. Finally, I don’t know why, I set it equal 24. I‘m going to lower it again to 20, according to the English medieval style. I didn’t remember this quote of the text.

Hmmm. You know what? I've taken some time to consider, and whilst there may still be an issue with the publishers, since they have the sole rights to publish the work just now, I don't actually have an issue with this on reflection.

Please carry on with my blessing, provided the publishers don't mind.

This is amazing work. When I read the topic, I just moved on down the list, as I thought it was just another house rule. But after seeing the quality of the work, I'm very happy to use it in my campaign.

Thanks!

-Eirik

I'll answer that in the Fanzine thread, to keep it in context.

Best
Tolwen

An excellent job!

It is a fantastic representation, and especially the coins look marvellous!

The only content-related - minor - niggling I'd have is the supposed Angmarean coinage. During Angmar's existence, Sauron was still quite weak and avoiding any hints that might point to the return of the Dark Lord. Having now a powerful realm in Eriador with a mysterious and malevolent undying king minting coins with a Morgothian emblem, it would be obvious that this realm sees itself in the tradition of the Great Enemy. It would be IMO an unwise step by drawing much too much unwanted attention by the Wise and Dúnedain on topics the Witch-king and Sauron wanted to keep a low profile.
At the very least, it would be unsuitable for most of Angmar's existence. It might be an option for late Angmar (e.g. 20th century TA), at a time when the Wise and Númenóreans began to suspect that there was something more than human greed and lust for power behind the coordinated attacks o the Realms-in-Exile. Here the "Morgothian" coins might a small piece of the puzzle.
But for earlier Angmar, I see such coins as quite unlikely and not in harmony with Tolkien's descriptions for these times (e.g. TA 1300 to 1900 or so).

Keep up the great work!

Best
Tolwen

Most excellent work!

I only had one problem with the piece ... the title. I'm thinking the title should be "Money in Middle-earth" ... that is, dropping the "the" in the middle and adding a hyphen between "Middle" and "Earth" and making the "E" in "Earth" lower-case. The name "Middle-earth" seems to be the most accepted methodology of reference and the "the" caused me a distraction ... always to be avoided in writing. Of course, this is all just my opinion ... I will make use of this PDF in whatever form it exists!

Upload a new version!!!

And to be real nit-picky, it should read "Northwest of Middle-earth", as the continent of Middle-earth proper is much greater (of whatever shape ) than the Northwest which is mapped in the LotR and UT

EDIT: Just saw that Far Harad at least is represented, so I except this from my above statement.

*Thumbs Up*

Best
Tolwen

Thanks, i will change the title in the next version...

I will add my appreciation for your monetary article. Quite interesting. I'm going to have to read it again paying more attention to the specific coins minted.

Coins minted in Angmar seems odd to me as I cannot imagine the Witch-king paying his orcs.

However, assuming their was some need for coins, it seems more likely that Angmar would adopt the coinage extant in Rhudaur at the time of their "alliance" (~TA 1409). This would allow Angmar to hide it's connection to Sauron from the Dunedain. If the Dunedain find any of these coins on orcs, et al, they're assumed to be stolen from local victims - not proof of Rhudauran subterfuge. I used "extant" because Rhudaur may very well have kept using Anorian coinage.

It was not only orcs there. We have good evidence that a sizeable mannish population populated Angmar as well (and not only from Rhudaur, which became a victim itself after biting off more than it could chew in the "alliance" with Angmar). And these people would need some kind of normal currency/economic system.

Best
Tolwen

...and just to give credit where credit is due, another round of applause also for Greg Stafford: a good part of the article if from the Wealth chapter of the ever-excellent Pendragon. I love it that you fans are finding it easy to adapt stuff meant for that game!

Francesco

And it is necessary to add to Steve Perrin and his wonderful RuneQuest, of course, and other minor sources...

About the Angmar's coins.

It is a mistake that I have just corrected. They are coins minted during the first age of Middle-earth, very rare pieces, and they are from ANGBAND, not Angmar.

They can be used as background in a game in which some lost piece or an ancient treasure are discovered.

We apologize for the inconvenience.

About the prices:

I must to say that I based on authentic European medieval prices to set them, extracted of medieval sources, and on the unique available price on the novels, the price of a pony (4 silver pence).

Because of this, it can surprise anyone that the clothes or the properties are too much expensive.

Let me indulge in some nitpicking for fun...

Everyone concerning with money in Tolkien has studied the following passage about the price for a pony in Bree:

Bill Ferny's price was twelve silver pennies; and that was indeed at least three times the pony's value in those pans.

This seem to indicate that that the average price for a pony should be 4 silver pennies then. But I think thsat the passage indicates that the amount was at least three times the value of THAT pony in particular, "a bony, underfed, and dispirited animal" - otherwise the passage could have said for example: "that was indeed at least three times the value of A pony...".

This reasoning led me to believe that the right price for a healthy pony should have been at least twice that amount, between 8 and 10 silver pennies. Since 10 shillings (what Tolkien indicate simply as silver pennies, it seems) is the price of a draft horse in some early medieval documents, I decided to fix the cost at that amount (thanks to Shane Ivey for starting the whole discussion on money with me).

Francesco

Hi Francesco,

Well, you think that the passage indicates that the amount was at least three times the value of THAT pony in particular, but i thin that the passage indicates that the amount was the value for a common pony in the area.

"Bill Ferny's price was twelve silver pennies; and that was indeed at least three times the pony's value in those pans." DOT

"It proved to be a bony, underfed, and dispirited animal; but it did not look like dying just yet" DOT

I think that he wants to say that not only he charged them three times more than the normal price, but it was a sick animal.

"Mr. Butterbur paid for it himself, and offered Merry another eighteen pence as some compensation for the lost animals. He was an honest man, and well-off as things were reckoned in Bree; but thirty silver pennies was a sore blow to him, and being cheated by Bill Ferny made it harder to bear."

Butterbur paid Merry eighteen pence as compensation for the lost of five ponies, and he was an honest man, so it seems that a just price for 5 common ponies is eighteen pence; again about 4 pence for pony.

Well, as you see two ways of thinking, both valid ones

As final note, the prices that I have, hundreds of medieval prices, are about the year 1350

Ah, OK. That's something quite different of course - and fitting. I don't think I'd use it in that context though, since I personally envisage the First (and part of the Second as well) Age as much more archaic in these terms (for late Angmar they're very useful though IMO ). I see these ancient times more comparable to New Kingdom Egypt or Mycenaean models without a coin-based currency. Barter, hacksilver and ingots (all weighed) are IMHO a good models of "currency" for these archaic societies.

I always felt that the relative late invention of coins (compared to the overall history of ancient Earth) is more appropriate to the advanced Númenóreans of the Second Age and the Exiles in the Third.

Of course these considerations do not take into account cultures elsewhere in Middle-earth that had no contact with the western world.

Best
Tolwen

yes indeed!

The prices for clothes seem much a tad high for the "lowly materials" Of course I may have a wrong image in my head for what is included there...

especially comparing it to armor!

also the armor scaling seems off.. I would expect the mail to be much more expensive (a factor of 3-6x more expensive actually)

Yes, I was aware of the human adherents to Angmar's efforts. I agree that they, and other less monstrous creatures, would engage in trade of some sort requiring the use of barter or currency.

However, I cannot imagine Morgoth, Sauron or the Witch-king diverting skilled smiths - let alone materials - away from the war effort (and there always was one) to produce coins. Obviously some form of currency was likely to be used, but it does not have to be one specifically created by, and for, these domains. IMO, a mixed monetary system is more likely to have been used. Whatever wealth (gems, coins, etc) was brought in, regardless of method, was acceptable after estimating its value.

Another matter to keep in mind is the "might makes right" mentality that most of the populace would espouse. If they could confiscate the wealth or property of another with impunity, they did so. I cannot imagine that hundreds of dragons (in Morgoth's day) would ignore a gold shipment delivered to the mint. (Keeping in mind that Morgoth's control over the dragons was never 100% complete.)

It could be argued that some other material was used as coinage. Leather and wood (light but easily counterfeited) and stone (heavy, difficult to create but hard to counterfeit) are the obvious possibilities. Which still has the problem of diverting skilled workers to create currency. Although in these cases the greed of monsters is no longer a concern.


As to the timing of coinage, I agree that the Numenoreans probably played a significant part in that creation of monetary systems in Middle-earth. Monetary systems generally become more prevalent with extensive trading distances. Few of the known races participated in trade over long distances with multiple cultures. The various Elven communities are a possibility but somehow they strike me as being more inclined to gifting. Similar to what Galadriel did for the Fellowship before they left Lorien.

For the case of Angmar outright war with the Dúnedain is far from the norm. During its ca. 700 years of existence, Angmar fought four (if you include HoMe12 material) major wars with the Númenóreans: around 1356, 1409, 1852 and 1974.
Interestingly, the first and second as well as the third and fourth are relatively close together. This suggests a state of heightened overall conflict/tension, but the four-and-half centuries in between can hardly be described as a state of continued war effort. There might (and will) be some kind of small-scale border warfare, but none that would concern the areas beyond the borders.
For a human, 120 years of absence of major conflicts (from 1852 to 1974) is also quite a span.
The mid-Third Age is not really comparable to the very late where Sauron was immensely strong and unassailable militarily. Back then he (and his servants) were much weaker and the Dúnedain at first more powerful. Therefore, his strategies at this time differed from the War of the Ring. Sauron was flexible in achieving his goals and could wait while biding his time.
Therefore I think that it is likely to have Angmar with a "normal" economy, if not only for the sake of lulling Sauron's enemies into believing that Angmar was just another realm of men with mannish goals (rather than a supernatural servant of Sauron). This would only change in Angmar's later times when the Dúnedain began to grow suspicious.

Best
Tolwen

While I agree with Garn that elves and coinage are not a natural fit, I see no harm in having the option for people who want it. Just beware of projecting too many assumptions about modern cash-based societies into older, very different times.

Regardless, this is beautifully done. Thanks for all your efforts!

Great job, really like the coin images. One minor question ... what are cooper coins?

Ha, ha, ha, I will correct the misprint. At a few hours I upload the final version (already corrected) Thanks

I have just uploaded the final version. Thank you very much to everyone who have helpep me.