Just making sure I got this...

LMB 65

First time I read this I thought; Great! So if the Monsters next attack HITS it's automatically a Called Shot effect... simple, easy, I like it, and it makes the "eye" really mean something bad every time a Hero rolls it.

But then... now I think the regular rules for Called Shots still apply... or are they only for Heroes? (rules being asymmetrical and all)

I mean does the "eye" simply mean the Monster attempts a Called Shot, and have to score at least one "tengwar-1" rune to hit? Just like Heroes do?

AB 161

I would like for the Answer to be NO. I want the Simplicity and added effect the "eye" have for the Heroes if this Next "regular" monster attack simply had the Called Shot effect.

And to add to the confusion the next part of the AB 161 talks about the "eye" as something bad...

AB161

Surely this part does not apply to monsters making Called Shots? Does it?

If it does... Surely it should be triggered by a Gandalf Rune?
And what is the Monsters Basic Combat TN?... that of the Hero I guess since Monsters never pick a Stance?
And instead of loosing Virtues etc.... does he lose something else?

I hope it should be as simple and elegant as I first thought. But now I'm wondering...

/wolf

The thinking might be this: the "Eye" your hero rolled means he totally missed, goes off balance, fumbles with his weapon, whatever - the monster takes the opportunity to go for a Called Shot on its next attack.

Chances are, the next attack is right now. So, it has to hit whatever the hero's current Stance is, plus get at least one "T" on the weapon skill dice, or miss entirely. If the Called Shot attack results in a "G" on the feat die for the monster, it's blown too.

All about drama. Your hero missed badly, stuck his sword in the dirt or his helm slid over his eyes, the monster gets jazzed and goes to take his head off, but will likely miss him completely. At least you hope so.

Could be...

But it's not as simple. And it doesn't really make the "eye" as bad. Because as you say, odds are in favour of the Monster missing completely...

... but it could be.

ADDED:

BTW.... a Hero Fumbling a Called Shot is a Really REALLY bad thing!!! Because a) he is now at base TN PLUS the monster Facing him will go for a Called Shot himself..... BBBBbrrrrrrrrrrr *shivers*

/wolf

I think you are reading to much into this and cofnusing yourself.

LMB65 is clear.

1. A PC fails his attack roll and gets an Eye on his Feat Die.
2. The target attempts a Called Shot next attack. He would still need to hit and get the Tengwar symbol.

By implication, I think it is acknowledged that GMs will often be too busy to trigger Called Shots appropriately and this helps alleviate the burden of that timing.

I personally won't be using Called Shots for monsters outside of this rule, but I don't think it needs to be absolute if the narrative suggests otherwise.

In terms of your last point, the game makes it clear that you read Gandalf and Sauron runes the other way around when dealing with monsters.

A monster base TN is based on the stance taken by his opposing PC. The list in brackets are examples, not mandatory. For monsters, it would remove Parry and any Special Abilities.

Yes, my group thought this issue was problematic during play. It didn't seem likely that a hero could mess up and the Enemy would have a "lesser" chance at success on its next attack.

Maybe the next attack (if it succeeds) could have the same result as a called shot. I don't know, but it did seem strange during the game.

Maybe, as has been suggested, the Loremaster needs to just use this as an opportunity to describe dramatics. Rolling the Eye isn't really about a mess up as much as a trigger for the Loremaster to make a Called Shot?

I like this solution, he says while house-ruling furiously...

The threat of a Called Shot is pretty significant for a PC. Wounds, permanently lost shields, disarms have lasting effects on them compared to Endurance loss, and unlike monsters they have to often wade through more than one encounter. Having these happen automatically 1 in 12 times would be pretty harsh as a house rule.

I would play up the threat more in the narrative and let the dice fall where they may for all to see for added tension.

[QUOTE=Skywalker,Aug 13 2011, 07:25 PM] [/QUOTE]
/.../ Having these happen automatically 1 in 12 times would be pretty harsh as a house rule./.../ [/QUOTE]
Well... they still need to land a regular hit. So instead of requiring a Tengwar, you require the Hero to roll an "eye" on the previous roll... actually that is 1/12 multiplied by the chance to land a hit.

/wolf

True. But it does highlight that this household will punish frontline fighters even more than rear line ones as you are setting the threshold on TN and not Tengwar symbols.

I am all for house rules but you need to consider the consequences especially if you are making it after only 1 session of play.

Yes, it was only 1 session (from 6:30pm to 2:00am), but it felt like two!!! That did not include character creation, because we did that on Tuesday night for 3 hours.

I am not quick to house rule, so I think I will leave it as written. Skywalker, you have convinced me to see it as an opportunity for drama. I have got to get the idea of a fumble out of my head (after all, the Eye result is simply a zero result, not an automatic failure), and just see it as a trigger for the Loremaster's next attack.

This game is truly different from all the other systems I am used to. When I was a kid, I used to love playing Basic D&D because it was very simple and left much to the imagination. No one worried about tactics and just described the action. TOR accomplishes the same thing for me, but I like the simple combat options with stances and tasks. No minis, maps, movement, and attack of opportunity rules, etc. Awesome!

Yeah. TORs greatest achievement is to be simple yet deep in terms of the system. Most RPGs need to add complexity to get depth.

As for Called Shots, I would make a big deal of it and even roll the dice right in front of the player. The tension in waiting to see your fate from the dice alone is pretty high, and higher still if the consequences are higher, even if the chance of it happening is less.

I have been pondering the exact same thing after reading through the Loremaster book. An official response would be appreciated on this. I think you would attempt the Called Shot just like a player has to.

Correct, the monster attempts a called shot, which means that he needs to get at least a great success to hit the hero.

Amado.

Thanks Amado! You rock!

A bit of thread necromancy (suits Mirkwood... :-D) - while I am still waiting for the adventurer group to assemble, I was thinking about the called shots, and came up with a simple idea:

- If one of the players roll a Sauron's eye, everything stays as written in the book
- If the Loremaster rolls a Sauron's eye on an attack AND there is at least one tengwar rune, he can opt to spend a Hate point to convert the roll to a called shot.

The emphasis here is on the "he can" - it is completely optional. Simple, no upkeep needed, and stays within the "framework". No I hope that this is new, and I will not get responses like 'check the Loremaster's book, page xxx, this is already covered there' :-)

Adding to the necromancy...

The tension is high, and after you've had one successful called shot, where the player got popped pretty good, that'll be in the back of their mind for a long time. So it only takes one to succeed to ratchet up the tension even more.