EDIT: Go to page 2 to see the finalized map

Alrighty, so I decided to start a new thread because I have basically finished the map. All I need from you is help populating it.




Whatcha think?

As you can see I have 20 s.

The question is... what are those s? Give me a number, a name and a short description. The ones I like will be added to the map

1.
2. The Comfy Chair: Public House/Inn run by Master Mungo Butterchurn
3. The HUngry Salmon: Fishmonger run by brothers Harold and Torwald
4.
5.
6.
7. Merchant's Guildhall
8.
9. Blackrock Promenade: The small basalt lava-cone in which the Dwarrowpool rises has, over the course of Dwarven & then Mannish civilizations, been worked & carved for occupation. Originally caves were hewn & dressed for a Dwarven military post, but with subsequent Mannish settling the halls of dark basalt have been put to more mundane use, mostly mercantile and residential. Due to its igneous origin the BlackRock structure survived the Desolation of Smaug mostly intact. With the rebuilding of Dale a high proportion of dwarven merchants, craftsmen & dignitaries have been attracted to the expert stonecraft evident in the hard old BlackRock.
Blackrock Businesses:
-Fraeg & Sons Toymakers
-
-
-
-
-
-
10.
11.
12.
13. Royal Barracks
14.
15. Blackrock Cistern (Dwarrowpool): Currently used to store fresh water in case of attack. Able to be sealed off from the rest of the canal system by a lock at the point where the South Arm Canal breaks off from the Eastern Canal as well as where the Cistern normally drains off into the Long Quay. In Fact, The Cistern's (Originally called the Dwarrowpool's) cool, pristine water springs from deep underground through an ancient lava-tube/vent (from Erebor's volcanic past), and bubbles up into the SouthArm canal. It shares the same deep, subterranean source from which the Celduin rises within Erebor - a fact known only to the original King Under The Mountain Thrain1 and his wisest sage, but lost to current lore. To protect the secret of this submerged entrance to Erebor's deeps - Thrain1 established a strong military post worked into the basalt cone. It is due to the impressive dwarven stonework surrounding the waters that Dwarrowpool gained the name.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

Nice map Tensen.

It's quite difficult to read the text though(on my I-pad at least). What is written in the NW quarter?

I suppose that 8) is the square that lies outside the palace?

According to TotW there is an inn called 'the Drunkenstone'(a play on the Arkenstone which has caused mixed feelings among the Dwarves).

I would suggest a in the lower part of the town, near to either the Water gate or the Trader's gate.

Throrsgold, Mim and I fleshed out some s for Dale a while ago. I will use my amazing powers of thread necromancy to find it for you.

Yeah, and Photobucket shrunk the image... Maybe I'll do a zoom in on that section and use that instead.

That's Ravensgate in the NW

And Number 8 is actually intended to be a building, that's why I didn't put it in the center of the square

Ok, wild conjecture on my part as I don't generally worry about the historical accuracy of my cities on a per culture basis. There, I said it, I've totally blown "canon". But either of these might work. Feel free to discard if something better comes along. You could possibly mix-and-match as well. For instance the Promenade and Water Court, but make the latter more of a plant and flower market.

15 Cistern: An open air cistern of water held in reserve for the city should it suffer attack.
9 Promenade: This could be a large social gathering area, basically a paved courtyard taking advantage of the cistern's presence. Kind of a mini town green/square, festival ground, courtyard. Probably restaurants, taverns or entertainment along the edges.

15 Water Court: This is an open area of water for the sale of goods that would benefit from proximity to water. It could be aquatic goods (fish, reeds, netting, flowers, etc) or simply bulk goods (crates of paving stones quarried from Erebor) where use of a crane to take stuff off Boat 1 and put in onto Boat 2 would be helpful. This is more for "cold storage" of stuff by keeping it in the water, or keeping it alive (crabs, etc).
9 Water Market: This is a continuation of the above idea. Most of the fishermen would have their goods displayed for sale here, on land, for the inhabitants to look over. With some of their catch here for immediate sale, but storage in the Water Court.

Might I suggest Location 2 for my own creation, 'The Comfy Chair-Prop:Mungo Butterchurn esq.'?

Hmmmm, I like all those ideas Garn. My original intention was for 9 to represent a single smallish building, but it could easily be an important area surrounded by the buildings.

Think I'll go Cistern & Promenade

Halbarad, The Comfy Chair it is.

I'm not sure which part in your map is the more mercantile area, but might I suggest "Dorin's Kablooeys"? Not a particularly Tolkienesque name, but my group and I found it an amusing name for a firework shop.

Whoa. You've done an excellent job on this!

I especially like the parchment feel of the map, the direction arrow (nice nod to the previous occupant of the Lonely Mountain), & how you've intergrated the streets, bridges, & canals. I know you hesitated originally with the latter, but you've inserted them well. You've also captured Tolkien's interpretatin of the long arms of the mountain reaching out to envelop the city.

BTW, I can see a plot already forming in my demented LM mind concerning the quay.

Thanks to Halbarad's bump, you should have tons of ideas to fill in the map.

Yes, I have to agree, the map is turning out excellently. It is very good-looking and quite professional looking. Maintaining a Tolkienesque feel and appearance.


re: #9: Promenade
I was kind of wondering if you wanted a small shop or if you were talking about the "block" that the numbers appear in. I tend *ahem* to more detail - like every individual building. Anyway...

Why not "split" #9. Have the next person contribute a fancy establishment that would represent the kind of things one can find within the Promenade? That would probably be a much better result. I've described the immediate "neighborhood" and the shop provides an example.

I would have 8 as the Barracks and 1 as Houses of the Nobility.
Location 3 would suit Merchant Warehouses, and 12 a seedy inn of dubious repute.

Agreed Valarian, I think that 8 would be my choice for the Royal Barracks. Location 1 might be the mansion of the Dwarf Ambassador and 12 would perfectly suit 'the Drunkenstone' from Tales of the Wilderness.

Gorgeous map Tensen! I hope to put it to good use (with your blessing?)
Like Garn, I was immediately drawn to the cistern-like structure #15&9.
I came up with:
------------------------------
#15 The Dwarrowpool
The Dwarrowpool's cool, pristine water springs from deep underground through an ancient lava-tube/vent (from Erebor's volcanic past), and empties into the SouthArm canal (rather than being a reservoir into which SouthArm canal flows).
It shares the same deep, subterranean source from which the Celduin (River Running) rises within Erebor - a fact known only to the original King Under The Mountain Thrain1 and his wisest sage, but lost to current lore.
To protect the secret of this submerged entrance to Erebor's deeps - Thrain1 established a strong military post worked into the basalt cone (see #9). It is due to the impressive dwarven stonework surrounding the waters that Dwarrowpool gained the name.

#9 BlackRock precinct
The small basalt lava-cone in which the spring rises has, over the course of Dwarven & then Mannish civilizations, been worked & carved for occupation. Originally caves were hewn & dressed for a Dwarven military post, but with subsequent Mannish settling the halls of dark basalt have been put to more mundane use, mostly mercantile and residential.
Due to its igneous origin the BlackRock structure survived the Desolation of Smaug mostly intact.
With the rebuilding of Dale a high proportion of dwarven merchants, craftsmen & dignitaries have been attracted to the expert stonecraft evident in the hard old BlackRock.
------------------------------
Garn's Watermarket is a great use for current-day DwarrowPool!
Watermarket is the event (most days of the week).... DwarrowPool be the .

The BlackRock is home to mainly dwarven craftshops (waterclocks & more!), other establishments (for other contributors) AND the DrunkenStone (unless the Dwarves of BlackRock are objectors to that establishment - in which case another Dwarven Inn is here).
I'll probably base the Dwarven Ambassador here too.... the place just seems fated to draw dwarven presence.

Too much? I'll finish by pointing out the obvious ....
Unfathomable adventures & a long-forgotten secret lay deep beneath the sturdy dwarven precinct of BlackRock & the waters of DwarrowPool.

I think I'd make 7 a Merchant's Guildhall (as the Ravensgate District is where a lot of important/wealthy merchants and artisan live and have their workshops. Not sure what name it would have.

I think a memorial statue of Bard and the Dragon would be a nice feature, somewhere near the palace. Crafted by the Dwarves in honour of the dragonslayer.

Oh great job on the map by the way.

Tensen,

I would like to propose two further additions to your map and key.

The first is that you consider the fishmongers (Harald and Torwald- created by Mim) from the other thread for site 3. I think they they have great 'comic relief' potential.

The second is that you consider Fraeg & Sons Toymakers (also from the other thread and created by Throrsgold) as a representative business in the 'Blackrock' district. I would avoid using the term precinct though. It has 'too modern' connotations for my tastes.

It would be excellent if, after you have compiled all the information, you could create a downloadable PDF for this.

See, I don't think having tons of soldiers going in and out would be terribly great atmosphere for that grand square... kinda kills the mood.

Okay, I have combined Garn's and Cheese's ideas and we now have the Blackrock Promenade and Cistern(Dwarrowpool).

Halbarad,

Fraeg & Sons has been added to the Promenade

And I fully intend to release this as a PDF once it's finished.

Have nothing to add Tensen but just wanted to say that this is dead impressive stuff.

Thank you kindly sir!

Been going back and adding some of the places from the previous thread as well as places of my own making.

Also working on a new version of the map for inclusion when this turns into a PDF... What a sneak peak? Of course you do!



The intent is for it to basically be the map people could purchase... 11x17 high(ish) res full color

Wow

I'm incredibly impressed. Not least by how quickly you did this.
Might I enquire as to what program you used/are using for it?

It's 100% photoshop(With which I have close to 14 years experience) And I've been working on it for about 6 hours on and off.

I would have used Illustrator for the text, but I wanted the text to blur a little as if the ink had soaked in and bled. It should be readable when printed.

Okay, so here's the map, finished for now. I may go back and change some stuff... I started running out of s.

Click the picture to download the PDF of just the map... Descriptions to come later.

WOW!

I had to come up with a list of inns last night for my players: The Bowman, The Deadly Arrow, The Happy Shot, The Feathered Death, etc.. I made it into a bit of a joke that every single inn in Dale was named after that one event.

I'll probably retcon it to fit your map, though. It's just way too pretty not to use!

I put Baldor, the merchant from TfW, in a small apartment above a cured meats shop in the merchants' quarter. I explained his hard times by saying he was a luxury goods dealer. After the destruction of Lake Town, for a while no one wanted luxury goods and the change of regime there meant he lost most of his surviving contacts. Even after moving to Dale, though, the opening of Erebor meant he's finding it nearly impossible to compete against the Dwarves.

Wow nice job Tenson.

If it's not too late to add some more s I have thought of a few.

The first is an ammendment to my earlier sugggestion. 7 should be an Artisan's Guildhall and the Merchant Guildhall would make more sense to be in the merchant quarter.

The next is a house of healing run by two elderly sisters name Inga and Gurda, who run the house of healing with donations from wealthy townsfolk and a small yearly stipend from the Royal Palace. Though not many are aware of the fact, one of their chief donators is a wandering elven healer named Dínathrad, who taught them many of the elven arts of healing.

The next is a large feast hall called the Laden Platter run by an unlikely pair. Kemic Farstrider a dusty skinned man who hails from the lands beyond the Sea Of Rhun. He is a worldly man and many come to the feast hall just to hear his outlandish tales. His partner is a dwarf from the Iron Hills named Regin Stonetears, a dwarf who would dearly like to claim the fattest dwarf title from Bombur of Erebor.


I may have a few more later.

... Bloody 'ell, Tensen, you're one talented git. I hate you*!










(*In a really nice kind of way)

Is the toy market mentioned in LotR a physical emplacement, or just an association of scattered toy makers?

Glorfindel

It's not given a specific . It sounded to me more kind of a City-wide event. Though I plan on mentioning the main Part as taking place at the promenade.

Poosticks
Where were you when I was struggling to come up with one final merchant last night?!
Anyways, there's always room for more, I duplicated the text before flattening so I could add more places.

But then, I can always add them to the actual PDF.

Rich H

Thanks. Always available for commissions lol

Ovid

Hmmm... Wish I'd thought of that... Was a bit of a pain coming up with names

I'm not sure on the inn name The Hen and Chickens. A Hen is a Chicken isn't it? I don't get it.

The Black Shaft is a little bit 'tongue and cheek' isn't it, which wag came up with that? Sounds like a name for a brothel. Or have I just got a dirty mind?

I actually think that the 'Hen and Chickens' would be a good name for a house of ill repute. The term, 'Chickens' was used, in the not too distant past for the young chicks.

I quite like it, but perhaps 'The Cock n' hen' as an alternative?

No more Finbar Saunders type nonsense from you please Poosticks....lol

Heh, heh. I'd take you up on that but I've commission(ed) Jon H for some TOR artwork and he may get jealous!

... I like the idea of being a posh patron though.

(Not that I'm remotely posh!)

... No, I though that and more specifically a brothel of male 'workers'!

I did...

Maybe Black Haft... Or, the Black Fletching

And as for the Hen & Chickens, talk to Mim

So don't look at me for that one.

Within the gameworld, yes? ... If so, to maintain the verisimilitude of that, do you think the scale should be in meters or even there at all?

Yes.

And there is.

Sorry, I meant it possibly shouldn't be in meters or possibly even there at all.

Oh, I see.

Well, a certain amount of slack must be made to make it both setting-realistic and Usable by players/GMs.

The style of the map drawing itself is already several hundred years later than what would be expected during the equivalent Earth time period (See many medieval city maps)

So I think having a scale is probably the least of it's real-world issues.

Yeah, understood - just thought it worth suggesting in case you hadn't considered it.

I had, and decided it's primary purpose was as a game aid, so it should have some point of reference.

Contrary to the interpretation in the rule books, I consider the phrase "toy market" to mean the same thing as "toy industry." "The toy market of Dale" doesn't mean a marketplace in Dale that sells toys, and it doesn't mean a periodic event in which toys are sold; it means the sum total of all toy-selling that goes on in Dale.

Hmmm I don't know, other than completely contradicting the book which clearly states it's a and event ("Open every first Monday and Thursday each month in the city marketplace, the toy-market of Dale is a colourful and noisy centre of activity attracting merchants from Wilderland and beyond.") It just being the sale of Toys doesn't make a whole lot of sense within the period context.

A Market was a market. I don't think it's usage to mean "trade or traffic, especially as regards a particular commodity" was in existence during the associated period.

Even if it was it doesn't make a whole lot of sense

The game says that; Tolkien doesn't.

What period? Pre-historical Middle-earth, among speakers of Westron?