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> Noble Blood Background Of Elves Of Mirkwood
farinal
Posted: Jan 1 2013, 02:24 PM
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Does this trait hints that the character has Noldor or Calaquendi blood in general?


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Halbarad
Posted: Jan 1 2013, 03:27 PM
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I took it to be a reference to Sindar.

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Majestic
Posted: Jan 1 2013, 05:12 PM
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Perhaps it is even intentionally vague (leaving things up to the Player and Loremaster).

Elrond himself was of mixed heritage, and it would make sense for even someone with some Noldor blood to not be full-blooded Noldor.

In Decipher's game, the Noldor tended to outshine all of the other Elves, and were vastly superior (which could cause some game balance issues).


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Osric
Posted: Jan 1 2013, 06:34 PM
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I took it to be a reference to a Sinda bloodline too.

Without checking or anything, I just figured that either there was a deliberate move not to confuse new players with too much detail on the elves, or possibly even that 'what we all know' about the Sindar within the Wood-elf society derives from material outside of the Licence.

I've always thought there shouldn't be any Noldor in the Woodland Realm at all!
They are ruled by 'mere' Sindar (though Thranduil and Legolas don't overtly identify themselves as such, preferring to just call themselves Wood-elves the same as their Nando and Avari compatriots). And doesn't it say somewhere* that Thranduil (or even Oropher before him) migrated to the north of Mirkwood in part to stay clear of the influence of that dodgy Noldo, Galadriel, when she became the Lady of (the then more extensive) Lothlórien to the southwest?

Cheers,
--Os.

* The History of Galadriel and Celeborn in UT would be where I'd first look for this...

P.S.
Coming from this position, I was a little disappointed that Tales from Wilderland introduces Irimë the Noldo without any suggestion that she might not be a resident of Mirkwood herself -- leaving most Loremasters to probably assume that she was. Maybe she is returning from a pilgrimage to the of Cuiviénen or somewhere, that was her last deed before departing for the West? (Though that rationale would likely have issues of its own...)


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farinal
Posted: Jan 1 2013, 06:49 PM
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So we should wait until the Rivendell supplement is out for Noldor characters... I also wondered why that elf in Tales was Noldor.


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Tolwen
Posted: Jan 1 2013, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE (Osric @ Jan 1 2013, 10:34 PM)
Coming from this position, I was a little disappointed that Tales from Wilderland introduces Irimë the Noldo without any suggestion that she might not be a resident of Mirkwood herself -- leaving most Loremasters to probably assume that she was. Maybe she is returning from a pilgrimage to the of Cuiviénen or somewhere, that was her last deed before departing for the West? (Though that rationale would likely have issues of its own...)

My thoughts as well. Of course it's outside the license, but as players and fans we are fortunately not restricted by that.

IMO the TfW version, that she lived among Thranduil's people for a long time is not impossible (there is no evidence saying such), though highly unlikely and the latter is very often the best we have in the lore of Middle-earth. Especially since TOR strives to be very close/true to Tolkien's vision (even if they cannot always cite the source wink.gif ), it is IMHO not a good idea to push forward ideas that go against the explicit rule as outlined by the Professor.

All told, IMO this section of TfW needs a fix if one wants stay true to the original. IMHO it's not that difficult though. It could be re-made that Irimë is a resident of Lórien with Galadriel and wants to depart Middle-earth as in TfW. As a last favor before the departure, Galadriel asks her to visit Thranduil in an important mission (take ypour pick here). Thus she might stay with Thranduil for a few weeks or even months and afterwards she proceeds from there as in TfW.
It makes the disposition of Legolas and especially the other Wood-elves even better understandable, preferring to be rid of the Noldo better sooner than later. But her stay might also teach Legolas a lesson, softening his opinion of the Noldor and therefore preparing his quite positive attitude (Rivendell, Lórien) in LotR. This change of heart for Legolas (and Thranduil?) might be a side-effect or even a primary reason for her mission, known perhaps only to Galadriel and Irimë herself and crucial for the close cooperation of the Free People later in the War of the Ring.

Cheers
Tolwen


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farinal
Posted: Jan 1 2013, 09:34 PM
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Thank you Tolwen for that great post! Also what do you people think on Rivendell Elves culture that will come with the Rivendell book? There are more than one group of elves living in Rivendell so which one will this culture consist?

Also is that Irime is the one that is Finwe's daughter?


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Halbarad
Posted: Jan 2 2013, 04:28 AM
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I would say that it will be simply 'Rivendell Elves', with nods to the various cultures through the backgrounds only. Probably Sinda based. dry.gif
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Garn
Posted: Jan 2 2013, 04:30 AM
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IMO Noble Blood was written to be culturally independent so that in later expansions SG/C7 would not need to alter it. Where possible, things need to be generic so they can be re-used without changing the game mechanics. Obviously some cannot be re-used, or they are severely limited (for instance, only available to Elves).


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Tolwen
Posted: Jan 2 2013, 05:54 AM
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QUOTE (farinal @ Jan 2 2013, 01:34 AM)
Thank you Tolwen for that great post! Also what do you people think on Rivendell Elves culture that will come with the Rivendell book? There are more than one group of elves living in Rivendell so which one will this culture consist?

You're welcome smile.gif

IMO at the time of TOR, the only elven society that almost "pure" culturally is the wood-elven one. They deliberately dissociated themselves from the beleriandic Sinda and Noldo cultures and so remained "pure" almost to the end of the Third Age.

All the others (Lindon, Eregion, Lórien, Imladris) are a mix of different cultures, with Sinda and Noldo heritage being the most clearly visible. Of course the dominant heritage would change from realm to realm, and even within one realm over time.

Concerning Imladris, this is IMO a culture dominated by Noldo traditions, but also with a strong streak of Sinda heritage. As already said, Elrond himself is far from being a pure character, but a mix of all (Noldo/Sinda/Adan/Maia). The events in the late First Age have led to stronger mixing of Sinda and Noldo people (even Gondolin was a mix right from the beginning!), so at the end of the First Age, there is IMHO no elven realm (again, except the Wood-elves) which is culturally pure. Only shades of varying degrees exist then wink.gif

QUOTE (farinal @ Jan 2 2013, 01:34 AM)
Also is that Irime is the one that is Finwe's daughter?
That would be IMHO much too much. With this, she would clearly outrank Galadriel. If one wants to make her a really great among the Eldar, my article about the House of Finrod in Other Minds, Issue 10 might offer a solution. Here I speculate about a hypothetical sister of Orodreth and daughter of Angrod. Irimë might fill that role. This makes her a powerful Noldo of royal descent, the niece of Galadriel - and below her in rank. Within this family tree, she would then be the grandmother of Gildor Inglorion.

Please have a look at that article if you're interested in Noldorin genealogy (and especially Gil-galad's one).

Cheers
Tolwen


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Khamul
Posted: Jan 2 2013, 06:09 AM
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Could it not also be a noble Silvan blood line?
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farinal
Posted: Jan 2 2013, 09:21 AM
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QUOTE (Khamul @ Jan 2 2013, 12:09 PM)
Could it not also be a noble Silvan blood line?

But it says this: "In your veins runs the blood of Elven adventurers of great renown, who in ages past chose to dwell among the Silvan Elves, seeking refuge and peace in troubled years." So clearly not Silvan.


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