So what is there, do you think?

What sort of (Tolkien-esque) beasties are lurking about waiting to maim, maul or mutilate a Fellowship?

Vampires are bat-like monstrosities, not undead romantics. Werewolves are the traditional "wolf" creatures not the modern hybrid.

Orcs/goblins, trolls and ogres are fairly familiar, as are Balrogs and Nazgul.

Horse beasties that the Nazgul ride.
Flying (reptilian?) thing that Nazgul ride (Fell Beasts?)

Ghosts, spectres, wraiths, etc. are present.

What about animated skeletons and zombies? Tolkien-esque enough?

What do you all think is out there, in these days, besides goblins?

Marsh Serpents
These 20-30 foot snakes lurk among the reeds and the cattails of the marsh. The low pools and cool, damp soil provide the ideal habitat for breeding and laying eggs. Adventurers should be wary of these creatures when they encounter them because of their tremendous speed at striking and their ability to constrict their victims.

Marsh Serpent
Attribute Level 4, Hate 3, Endurance 15, Parry 7, Armour 2d, Bite 2 (Damage 6, Edge "EYE", Injury 14, Called Shot – Pierce), Constrict 3 (Damage 8, Edge -, Injury -), Special Abilities: Seize Victim and Snake-like Speed

The serpent's main form of attack is its bite; if a strike is successful, then the creature uses its Seize Victim ability to Constrict the target. Serpents will use up their Hate points in the beginning of a fight, unleashing Snake-like Speed, rather than rationing them.

Any type of natural creature can be used, in the correct terrain and climate.

Although LotRO calls skeletons and walking, bloated bodies wights, I do not recall a full description of the creatures within the text.

The Black Horses are supposed to be natural horses stolen from Rohan and then trained to withstand the Nazgul's awful presence.

The Necromancer and the Fell Beasts... I'm kind of working on them all, prompted by Brothers Across The Green Sea. Haven't posted anything yet as it is still in the early stages.

You've covered most of the known creatures. I cannot recall ogres per se, but I'm a bit fuzzy on them ATM.

Oh, wait, you forgot the dragons. Dragons, Fire Dragons, Cold Drakes, and Worms. And that Hobbit poem creature said to live in Harad? Khand? Were-worms.

I reckon that you can use pretty much anything from the mythology of the British Isles and Ireland, Scandinavia or Western Europe and it could be given a Tolkien spin.

Anything from Germanic myth is fair game. "Wight" could well be used as a generic term for (undead) bogeyman, just as orcs are simply larger and fiercer goblins. Ogres are quite possible, some sort of large, debased humanoid cannibal. Grendel and his mother would fit right in.

Will-o-wisps, kelpies, sluagh, all sorts of fell beasties.

The "fell beasts" that the Nazgul ride seem to me to be related to Pterosaururs, at least I'm the case of the Witch King, the others may ride giant carrion crows or vultures.

Remember that "fell beast" is a generic term meaning evil creature, it is not a proper noun. The hobbits probably called the Witch King's flying mount that as they had no word in Westron specific to that species.

Read Celtic faerie stories for inspiration as well.

Giants seem common in the higher passes of the Misty Mountains. By the time of TOR dragons are mostly extinct or found beyond the borders of the Middle Earth proper, the sole Balrog remaining is Durin's Bane and even Gandalf seems unaware of its exact nature until he encounters it directly.

Monsters should be kept otherworldly and not be reduced to mere Monster Manual sword fodder. Many encounters would likely be with larger, more deadly forms of comventional wildlife. Wicked Men, Dwarfs, Orcs etc are the most likely encountered villains.

Ogres might be a different, possibly regional, name variant for the more human like Stone Trolls.

Swanmays, bean sidhe ( banshee), Dearg Dul(irish Vampires) all could find a place. Barghests(black dogs) could be fell spirits in the form of a guardian hound and Stoorworms like the Lambton worm work as well.
Dryads etc as capricious nature spirits after the style of the river maidens.
Draugr as a Dalish form of Barrow Wight.

Never thought that the were worms actually existed. I thought they were a piece of gibberish invented in a bluster by Bilbo who had just had his worth called into question by the Dwarfs. A nonsense invention like Lewis Carroll's Jabberwocky and Bandersnatch.

REQUEST: Could you guys create stat blocks for some of these ideas? That would be awesome!

While we are kinda sorta on the subject, has anyone else noticed that Tom Bombadil is a kind of 'mature' version of Puck? Isn't Puck referred to as an "eldest" as well?


Halbarad,
You may be right about the Were-worms. But considering that Sam knew of Oliphants, a rare creature residing hundreds of miles farther south than the Hobbits are ever suspected of emigrating... maybe not.

As to your suggestion of using material from the "British Isles and Ireland, Scandinavia or Western Europe"... I'm not sure how much of that material, in its original form, I would know. (I can imagine that college students are currently telling mythology profs "Hey, they stole that mermaid story from Disney!")

Banshees as harbingers of death seem a bit far-fetched for Middle-earth. Perhaps I'm missing something? Dearg Dul are new to me.


Horsa,
Tolkien has Will-o-Wisps within the Dead Marshes, calling them Corpse Candles. Kelpies I recall as some kind of murderous water sprite, slaugh are unknown to me.

The unnamed flying mounts used by the Nazgul in LotR, are usually referenced as Fell Beasts as everyone recalls the phrase. Thus, the Fell Beasts are fell beasts. (And stop trying to peek at my Necromancer Notes!)

Dragons, uncommon at best, are most often found in the Withered Heath (north of Erebor). Just keep in mind that Tolkien's Dragons have multiple physical forms (ie, number of legs, with or without wings, etc).

Ok, this is going to get a bit weird...
While I strongly agree with the sentiment the reality is that this cannot be fully honored in an RPG. Fighting a finite group of opponents repeatedly is boring, even when taking into account altered circumstances. Having said that, the number of creatures within Middle-earth, as compared to other fantasy settings, is quite small. License limitations will restrict opponents. Which is part of the reason I believe a bestiary was not included. It is my belief that SG/C7 might attempt a Cthulhian approach - adding a few monsters as needed, endlessly, rather than creating a bestiary.

(And this comment has reminded me that either the Germans or Russians have a female water sprite, really the spirit of a drowned girl, Raushka(?), that might make an excellent unique encounter.)

Hi Garn,

Unfortunately, I am not much of a Tolken scholar and so certain premises that I envisage may not be able to occur. I have noticed commentary in several posts about the nature of 'undeath' in ME.
I do not really envisage Bean Sidhe as a generic 'Harbinger of Death' but possibly as an individual case study.

Bean sidhe literally translates as 'woman of the faeries', so we are probably talking about an Elvish spirit. A Feaa?
Are these Feaa wandering spirits or are they tied to a specific locale? I don't know.Someone else is going to have to search that out.
Assuming not, then perhaps we could rename our Feaa in Sindarin or a Northman related language.

Perhaps our (re named) bean sidhe died a violent death at the hands of some evil entity and has remained to forewarn people of their impending demise at the hands of the same entity (perhaps, Dionysus' Black vampiric mist).
Unfortunately,the only way that she can communicate with the victims or their families is by wailing her anguish at them in an attempt to forewarn them. This has been misconstrued and now the Feaa is thought to actually bring the doom rather than warn of it.
As such, stats are not needed as she is a plot device rather than an opponent.

Maybe you mean "Rusalka"?
It's a nasty slavic water spirit...

Garn, I wasn't saying "don't give the beasties stats" I was saying "give the beasties more than just stats".

The limited bestiary is kind of frustrating. Either the poor GM must create a unique creature for each encounter, or else it's "goblins today, goblins yesterday, and blimey if it don't look like goblins again tomorrow" to paraphrase a certain troll.

The Corpse Candles of the Dead Marshes are exactly what led me to suggest Will-o-Wisps. Between the Ents, the huorns, the Old Forest, and the missing Entwives animated and possibly malevolent trees are a likely encounter.

Part of the issue is a factor of different modes of storytelling. Stories depend on conflict to drive the plot. The most common conflict in RPGs is combat. The mechanics and descriptions are easy to make exciting. Inner conflicts like Boromir's struggle against the temptations of the Ring and his desire to save Gondor, or Frodo and Sam fighting despair and ennui as they trudge slowly across Mordor are not the stuff of exciting gaming. Such internal struggles even with he best efforts of game designers to provide interesting mechanics usually fall flat.

Halbarad: My advice would be to use the game to tell stories that you and your group enjoy. Use Middle Earth as a setting, but do not worry about everything being exactly as Tolkien envisaged it. The truth is he probably would not have liked RPGs. Remember also that the Hobbit and by extension the Lord of the Rings were not originally conceived as tales of Middle Earth. Tolkien discovered bits of his Middle Earth creeping into the stories and as he progressied with LotR the novel became more and more tied to Middle Earth. This can be seen particularly in the early parts of Fellowship of the Ring, the first ten chapters or so being much more like the Hobbit in tone and character than what follows.

We have set foot upon the path by rolling up characters and beginning the game, where it will lead us is the adventure. Keep to what seems the proper feel to you and your players and share your adventures with us please.

The Wels Catfish



Largest size in modern times is 10’ long and 340 lbs (3m/150kg)

Largest reliably reported size in 19th century was 16’ long and 675 lbs (5m/306kg)
This would be DOUBLE the size of the fish in the picture above...

The fish is territorial, aggressive and will attack humans.

Now let's add the fantasy:
The death of Smaug leaves a massive animal carcass and hundreds of human bodies on the bottom of the lake, trapped in the wreckage of Laketown. Aquatic life of all sorts benefits. Everything from herbivores & carnivores to omnivores& scavengers, everything gets a free meal. And it can take years for whale carcasses to decompose.

What would the effects be if an already large and aggressive fish like the Wels feasted on the carcass of a Great Dragon? It gets bigger. Much bigger. And it now needs a larger food supply to maintain its greater size.

What happens in, say 5 years or so, when the dragon carcass is stripped bare. The increase in aquatic population is going to spread out and find other sources of food.

What else is found in the lake in large numbers that could sustain a population of giant, hungry, aggressive catfish...

(stats to follow)

Oh...my. Given the kraken like "Watcher in the Water" at Moria, I really don't like to think about what the evil remains of a dragon might spawn in the Lake...

I saw the Wels on "River Monsters" not a fish I would like to tangle with at all, and it's just a catfish....

Yes. Love the Slavic mythology! They have good stuff to mine, as well. While we're at it, did anyone stat out mewlips after watching the video?

I will continue to believe that this is just Photoshopped, if only for my own sanity.

Then again, FRIED GIANT CATFISH!

That one's gonna need a lot of hot sauce!!

Nope. It's legit.

And, yes, fried catfish is oh so very tasty!

< I just drooled on myself. >


Kind of a bummer though. Monsters are supposed to inspire cold sweats and thoughts of horror, not slobber and thoughts of recipes...

Hi Halbarad,

Both are possible. Let me quote an insightful and highly relevant passage from Tolkiens thoughts on such matters. Beside the immediate answer, it also gives a lot of interesting thoughts (or at least things to think about) concerning "necromancy", i.e. communing and dealing with spirits or unbodied fëar:

Hope this helps

It also offers a good theory on the question, why Sauron was called The Necromancer in his incognito stay in Dol Guldur: Necromancy (dealing with the fëar of the Houseless or original spirits - ëalar) was his specialty, and he probably practiced some of these abilities here as well. Thus it was probably quite easy for him to make the local Northmen believe he had power over their ancestors or spirits in general.

Cheers
Tolwen

Very interesting. It gives a place for many more ghost stories than I would have thought in Middle Earth. It also does give Sauron's title of the "Necromancer" more substance than just a word for "evil magician manipulating the spirits of the dead", a fearful enough title, but all the more so when it has a core of truth.

One has only to remember that this applies only elven fëar. They remain in Arda and are thus subject to the aforementioned things. Mannish spirits leave - whether they want it or not.

I find it quite nice that the usual cliché of men's spirits wandering earth as ghosts, that is so common in Fantasy and most RPG's, is not possible according to Tolkien's thoughts (unless immensely powerful magic like the Great Rings is brought forth). The usual "restless soul which is unwilling to leave" is something not possible for men, but for Elves. I like this twist, since it gives the setting something unique.

Cheers
Tolwen

This is part of why I had pretty much ruled out ghost stories. The spirits of dead Men do not remain in Middle Earth. No remaining spirit of the dead, no ghost, no ghost, no ghost story.

I hadn't thought of Elvish ghosts.

And tainted Elvish ghosts at that. That would seem perilous indeed.

Aha, thanks Tolwen.
I knew I could rely on you for a reference.

So, it appears that my restless Feaa(?) could exist as I portrayed her, a misunderstood but basically benign spirit, or that she could in fact be tainted by the shadow and be malevolent.

The houseless fëar (pl. and with diaresis to make clear that it is not pronounced as 'fear', but with both the vowels spoken) can be misunderstood and benign. You should note that they may still be dangerous to deal with (the danger may be unintentionally on the side of the houseless fëa). But as Tolkien notes, the refusal of the summons to Mandos is already a - IMO minor - sign of taint (i.e. 'Shadow' in game terms, but probably permanent). Depending on the circumstances, this can be the easy entry for a downward spiral.
It does not preclude benign houseless fëar for sure, but their interaction with bodily creatures is always tricky. It is not easy (almost impossible?) for a human to differentiate the wicked from the more benign elvish ghosts, and coming into contact with a former is - as noted above - dangerous and folly.
IIRC Tolkien notes in another passage that the forceful separation of hröa and fëa is often quite traumatic, and this gives the houseless unwilling to leave a bad start... But I have to look that up.

And then you have the elvish "ghosts" that never lost their body through unnatural causes, but have "consumed" them through the fëar becoming ever more dominant over the hröa over the course of many milennia and finally "using it up". This happened, according to Tolkien, before the Fourth Age, only to Avari, who were less strong in body than the Eldar.

But these faded Elves are much more benign (depending on their outlook in bodily life of course) and not that dangerous.
I'll look for that quote and post it later.

Cheers
Tolwen

Thanks Tolwen,

I am envisaging that this particular Fea had refused the call for a particular reason that could be defined as benign, but that as the centuries/millennia have passed her role has been misconstrued. Inability to communicate her warning has driven her slowly insane and prone to outbursts of anguish and rage which manifest in her keening wail. Also, as time goes on she may even forget her true reason for refusing the call and become a malevolent spirit. Thoughts?

On another topic, it occurs to me that the fell spirits that inhabit the bodies of the dead Kings on the Barrow Downs may be corrupted Elvish Feaa. What do you think?

On pronunciation. I was thinking of it as Fey-ah and Fey-ar. Fey being a word that is commonly associated with Elvish and Faerie folk.

Cheers

Hey Garn,

Just coming back to you on the subject of the Dearg Dul. They are a type of Irish vampire and quite possibly the source of much of modern ideas about vampires( it would appear that Bram Stokers influences may have lain closer to home than in eastern Europe).

They are normally female and red haired although male ones exist, the most famous being Abhartach. Just google Abhartach and you will find a number of interesting links.

It seems to be from the story of this character that the notion of wooden stakes and being buried face down my have arisen. Interestingly, he is described as having been a misshapen Dwarf sorcerer prior to his return as an undead entity.

Ok, catching up on a couple posts here...

Halbarad,
I like that interpretation of a Banshee. While it does seem to be more of a plot device, I would still add stats. Considering the confusion over it's nature someone is bound to attack it.

In light of Tolwen's comments, perhaps a dual write-up? One for the good banshee who has recently died and is trying to warn potential victims of their impending death at the hands of the banshee's killer. The other banshee write-up is one where the banshee has succumbed to evil and now attacks others based on some similarity (to killer, circumstance, whatever).

As for the Barrow-downs, I thought that Tolkien states they are, well, I'm going to say Arnorian (Dunadan?) but they could also be any of the 3 sub-country split as well. Anyway. The barrows were burial mounds for Arnoran kings & aristocrats from hundreds of years earlier. The physical remains of these dead kings was possessed by evil spirits from Angmar at the Witch-king's / Sauron's influence. The exact nature of these spirits is unknown.


Corvo,
Rusalka sounds right. But as I recall it was a kind of split-temperament creature. Either it sought retribution for it's death, or just tried to drown you without provocation.


fatbaldhobbit,
Oh my, I wasn't aware catfish grew that large. Quite interesting, thanks for posting. Neither recipes or hot sauce are necessary as I'm not partial to fish. But giant catfish... some of you Hobbits better be careful the next time you're boating!

As for Smaug's remains, I actually thought the idea that no one scavenged magical ingredients from his corpse as being highly unlikely. Not to mention all those gems falling off his decaying chest and lying on the lake bottom. Somehow I cannot imagine that many NPCs making successful Corruption tests.

But then, maybe they did stop by - and the catfish got 'em!


Tolwen,
Thanks for the fea citation. That is more stuff I really need to read.

Here is the part about the other - faded - Elves:

The mentioned Lingerers here are those who have "used up" their bodies (hröa) over the many milennia and - as seen above - are even regularly benign, not having experienced the traumatic severance of body and spirit (and its consequence - the unnatural state of being houseless).

I see the ability of "showing the form" as (in modern/S-F terms something like "Psi") a power to project the memory of the body into a semi-solid form that a man may see or even touch.

@ Halbarad
The idea of the Barrow-wights being enslaved houseless is one solution, the other are regular spirits (e.g., ëalar and not elvish fëar). These are entities for whom natural existence is not a union of body and mind, but spirit alone (e.g. the Ainur are all of this kind), but who may clad themselves in bodily forms. In corrupted state they often lose the power to freely change their form or drop this "raiment" at will.
These spirits are generally better in manipulating the matter of Arda (for which a corpse qualifies of course) by their mind than the houseless, who are generally powerless over the material world and seek (at least the wicked) to commune with the living to get access again to a living body whom it may inhabit.

Since the dead bodies are just that - dead - a houseless fëa may have trouble making any use of it. I can imagine that a "regular" spirit is better suited to that.

See also Other Minds, Issues 1 and 3 for extensive scholarly treatments of the Barrow-wights and their possible nature (the part in #3 is more about the possible literary sources as well as legends who may have inspired Tolkien in designing these creatures).

Cheers
Tolwen

Thanks Tolwen, any ideas for a ME type name for our Feaa? I am considering just going with 'wailing' or 'groaning' spirit. Something in one of the Elvish tongues would be good though.

Garn,

I shall have a think about stats for her. I think you are right that she is likely to be attacked by player characters if they encounter her. Stats would be useful.

I suspect that the "wicked dwarves" probably reflects Tolkien's early conception of dwarves as a shadow folk, like goblins (which later became orcs). Obviously he had abandoned the idea that the dwarves were purely a shadow folk by the time he wrote The Hobbit, but I suspect that he still saw them as a bit of a "darker" race than Elves, or even Men.

Hi Halbarad,

Well, the first quote (about the houseless) seems to imply that at least for men you need some kind of necromantic "magical" powers to get in touch with them (Elves may be another case, but that probably depends on which type of Elf and his background - a Glorfindel might be able to do it himself).
For game purposes I believe it safe to assume that there is no one of such a power level in the normal party and thus you have to cope with it like most folk.

This can be done by necromantic magic spells and devices/items with similar powers. In either case you are guaranteed to get Shadow not only for using such things, but also for trying to get in contact with the houseless in the first place, which is against the "law" of the Valar. Whether you (as a player and character) are aware of that law is another matter though...
IMO the passage is quite clear in its intention that you cannot "talk" or otherwise simply communicate with a houseless, but need special powers. And again, already the attempt is against the above mentioned law. On the other side, the houseless cannot simply communicate with the living either.
The presence of such a houseless may best be descibed by typical ghost story plot devices: Unnatural sounds, a chill, an uneasy feeling of another presence etc. All these things that might be explained by natural causes, but must not... A halfway skilled necromancer would be able to interpret such sensations correctly and thus be able to use his communication powers in a directed action rather than with trial and error.

The Lingerers are another case as outlined above. These are mostly benevolent and will communicate easily with men if they see goodness in them. Of course they lack the plot device of a traumatic event or loss - they simply did not lose their body unnaturally. IMO such entities are great as exceptional encounters - remembered for a lifetime.

Cheers
Tolwen

Sorry Tolwen I'm getting a bit lost.

Are you saying that Houseless Feaar cannot take the form of traditional ghosts like my Banshee, White Ladies or headless apparitions and that they only manifest as chill winds, strange noises etc?

Yes in that they are invisible without the ability to make themselves visible. See the second quote: "For the Houseless have no forms to reveal,...". The second part speculates on a "what if" scenario, though I tend to stick with the first part that states that the houseless have no bodies to show/reveal.

The speculation in the "what if" part about marred elvish forms could then be seen as a possibility for the most powerful of the wicked houseless (if you want it to be true) who try to delude the unwary and counterfeit (see the second quote) elvish forms with the goal of overwhelming their victim and "stealing" their body.

In any case I'm hesitant about their ability to communicate with the living without any aids on the part of the living (e.g. necromancy). It is a characteristic of Tolkien's vision of the nature of the Eruhíni that they are "whole" only in union of body and spirit. If the body is destroyed, the existence of the houseless becomes unnatural and it loses the ability to speak (of course). It can then only communicate via thought (ósanwe in Tolkien's terms; telepathy in modern ones). Men have extreme difficulty in communicating via thought (only very few possess the necessary strength of mind - and then probably mostly Númenóreans). Elves are much better in this, compare the end of the LotR, when on the way home Elrond, Gandalf, Galadriel and Celeborn have an intense and long talk (probably about old times ) in Dunland via thought alone.

The second part with the strange noises etc. is my personal interpretation or suggestion what might be within their power to make themselves felt if there is no one to perceive them otherwise.

Best
Tolwen