Hi All,

This occurred to me today. When Weary, heroes are supposed to treat rolls of 1-3 on Success dice as Zero. Does this also apply to Protection tests for armour to defeat a Piercing Blow?

As far as I'm aware, it would. However, as a Protection test is really a test of the armour the hero is wearing rather than of the Hero themselves, maybe this is an exception? I confess, I have not checked the rules on the Weary condition re. Protection tests, so forgive me if this is answered in the rules.

Yes, the rolls still count as zero. The hero is weary, and stumbles in to the blows or is slowed so that his opponent can find the weak spots in his armour more.

It's not just a test of the armour, it's a test of the wearer. Good luck getting that shield up to block the incoming blow if you're exhausted...

A Shield confers a Parry bonus, so I would have thought a shield has already done (or rather failed to do) its job by the time the Piercing Blow occurs. A Piercing Blow, to my mind, represents just that, a blow which has struck home. Heroes without armour are automatically Wounded at this stage - it's only Heroes wearing armour who get a Protection test.

On a more general level I think what I'm really asking is this. Does Weary only affect "Skill Rolls", i.e. rolls to succeed using a Common or Weapon skill. As I say, I have not checked the rules as I don't have them to hand right now - but it seems possible to me that only Skill checks are required to use the Weary condition effects.

On the subject of conditions, it might be useful to make up cards like those in WFRP3E for the TOR conditions (Weary, Miserable, Unconscious, Wounded, Spent) which list the effects. If the character gets the condition, just give them the card. It could be a nice project for any budding artists in the forum!

I forget the thread where Francesco did clarify, but Weary does affect armour checks and every other sort of skill check as far as I recall.

Presumably that applies to Wisdom and Valour too.

All tests are affected by the weary state. The character is more susceptible to corruption, more afraid, more liable to get wounded. He's tired, spirits are sinking and he really just wants to go home. But he doesn't, he's a hero (i.e. stupid).

Everyone gets a protection test, wearing armour or not. It's just that the protection test for someone not wearing armour is the Feat die only (no additional success dice). Generally, this means they have to roll and hope Gandalf comes by.

Or Sauron... depending which side you are fighting for

By the way, this makes the Woodmen's Hound is a key asset for troll-hunters

Indeed it does Corvo.

Francesco also suggested somewhere that large opponents (like trolls) become weary once their endurance is brought down to 0, thus making it a bit easier to make the killing piercing blow thereafter.

Yes, the weariness 'handicap' applies on all Protection tests. As Mytholder said it is a way to factor in the wearer in the damage equation. I can see where you are coming from with your question, of course, but the mechanic as it is is quick and easy, and parallels the rest of the mechanics.

Francesco

Yeah, a rule I like
I think he suggested to make the monster "weary" at zero endurance and/or after the first wound, but maybe I'm wrong on the latter

I haven't tracked my suggestion here, but the note on my blackboard mentions only the reduction of Endurance.

Francesco

Tracked! It's "zero endurance or wounded"

Here is the thread:My Webpage

Ach!

Not sure I agree with myself now though... Creatures with Great size are supposed to be fearsome creatures.

Also, being Weary after reaching End zero makes sense as far as the general mechanics go, while becoming Weary when wounded differs much from the rules for player-heroes.

What do you think?

Francesco

Really, I'm on the fence.

Coherence with the rules for the player-heroes would be neat, elegant.
And frankly, zero endurance = weary is very intuitive.

Yet... sometimes I feel the wounding mechanic is a bit underplayed, in favor for plain old hit-points bashing (I'm referring to the high armour of many opponents). I would like wounded=weary for the trolls and the heroes too! Really I love your wounding rules: too many game designer shy away from "sudden death" mechanics.
But I hail from WFRP, where I played without hit points and just critical wounds, so I'm surely biased.

I would have them go weary on 0 Endurance only, and not when they are Wounded. Besides the incongruence with PC Weariness, I don't like the idea that having one Wound makes the second easier – though I'm ok with it being that way with Endurance loss.

That's the decisive consideration for me, too.

Thanks for all the clarifications! Weariness affecting ALL rolls will make players worry about gaining fatigue on long journeys that little bit more (all to the good in my opinion). I also didn't realise that unarmoured characters get a Protection test vs Piercing blows (Feat die only hoping for a Gandalf, or Eye for the bad guys).

Re. the discussion about creatures of Great Size - I agree with the consensus that only zero Endurance should weary them. A single wound might actually enrage a Troll rather than make them Weary, whereas zero Endurance more accurately represents the gradual wearing down of the creature.

Corvo

Like you I felt that the Wounding mechanic was a bit underplayed, so I introduced a House Rule (actually based on a suggestion from one of my players):

Wounded OR Weary = Ignore rolls of 1 and 2 on the Success Dice
Wounded AND Weary = Ignore rolls of 1,2, & 3 on Success Dice AND Feat Die

This has made players in my campaign a bit more appreciative of wearing decent armour (before this they were more concerned at not getting weary)!

I still want to playtest this with some more combats first, but I do like the idea of a penalty for being 'Wounded'....


Robin S.