"When invoking an Attribute bonus on a favoured skill,
a hero adds the (higher) favoured Attribute rating to the
die roll results."

Does the monsters have different mechanics for the favorited skills? Since they only have one attribute level for everything.

They simply automatically add their attribute level to favored skills. There is no hope/hate to spend. (I can't reference a page, since I have a french edition of the rules)

Yes, they simply add their attribute score to all rolls in their favoured skill, without having to spend hope or hate for it.

Well now that make things interesting

Yep. Loremaster's Book, page. 64 (english version).

Also another quick question. Does monsters gain any bonuses for throwing 6?

Page 64 of the Loremaster's Book says in the section 'Attribute Level': This replaces the three Attributes used to describe player-heroes. It is added as a bonus every time that a creature attempts a roll using a characteristic indicated as favoured (without the need of spending any point to invoke the bonus) and as a Damage bonus to be applied when the creature hits an opponent in combat rolling a great or extraordinary success.

So, yes. Creatures gain their Attribute level as a Damage bonus when they hit with a great or extraordinary success.

Thanks everyone for putting up with my laziness.

I forgot about the great success damage bonus. 1 in 6 hits will REALLY hurt.

Great succes being damage bonus = attribute score
Extraordinary success damage bonus = 2x attribute score

That's the way I've done it, but to be fair the text you quoted James could be read as only ever increasing damage by the attribute score (ie, not doubled on an extraordinary success).

Nah, makes the characters fear the enemy. I've done it that way too. I'm cruel to my players ... see the Dying and Treatment thread for my interpretation of the dying rules.

Seriously, having the threat of death for the character is a motivating factor in the players and does change their outlook - D&D this isn't. They consider the combat situations and know that their characters face death in the process. It lends a tone to the campaign that highlights the dwindling of hope. That the characters put themselves in harm's way so that others can live their lives in peace. That is heroism, not the cheerful and wholesale slaughter of the typical D&D campaign.

I would say that the text indicates that creatures can roll both greater and extraordinary successes. The fact that it differentiates the two ( and that the two have different results) suggests to me that a creature adds it's Attribute score twice on an extraordinary success.

As you say though Rich, it is not overly clear.

Have always assumed that - ie, it works in the same way as when PCs get great and extraordinary success and add 1x or 2x their Body respectively to damage. Thought it worth raising to clarify for the OP though...

Getting twice the Attribute level as a Damage bonus on an extraordinary success would be deadly for the player-heroes, for sure!

My plain interpretation of the rules on this would say the intention is NOT to do this, but just to give the Attribute level as a bonus on either a great or extraordinary success. I understand the question though. However, I'm not sure how Francesco could have written it differently. Since both great and extraordinary results are possible, he had to include them when explaining the Damage bonus. He had to say, "...and as a Damage bonus to be applied when the creature hits an opponent in combat rolling a great or extraordinary success."

I suppose he could have put an 'either' between 'rolling' and 'a.'

Maybe I'm wrong! If so, look out player-heroes! Especially from creatures with favoured weapon skills. They get to add their Attribute level as a bonus to hit too. This makes a Great Orc one of the deadliest opponents the heroes can face.

Oh, good point, good point my little fussy hobbits! Waiting for an answer from Mr. Nepitello.

However, he could simply have stated that, no matter how many Tengwar Runes are rolled, a creature can only claim a Greater success.
The implication from the text is that a creature can achieve all the different levels of success. There is no alternate indication of how to differentiate between them. It is surely reasonable to presume then,that they are differentiated for creatures in the same way as they are for heroes.

I'm just going to mention Mountain Trolls again (I'm not obsessed honest ).

Those things will make pancakes out of a band of heroes.

I'm still waiting for someone to say they've used one in a game, and how many P'C pancakes had to be scraped off the floor.

I don't know what the fuss is about. There is already a standardized way to handle Damage Bonuses. Why does he have to define it again in the monster section if it was already described in the combat chapter(s)?

I have a Mountain Troll in a soon to be tested adventure. I will report any pancakes!

Well, because combat for Loremaster characters is handled differently than it is for player-heroes. Here are a few examples:

• Player-heroes choose combat stances, which determines the base TN for attack rolls - Loremaster characters do not choose stances.
• Player-heroes use Hope to add their favoured Attribute score - Loremaster characters simply add their Attribute level to favoured weapon skills without the need for spending Hate.
• Player-heroes must declare a Called Shot - Loremaster characters are forced to make a Called Shot when the hero attacking them fails and rolls an Eye.
• Player-heroes become Weary when their Endurance falls below their Fatigue - Loremaster characters become Weary when they lose all their Hate points.
• Player-heroes can choose to be 'knocked back' to halve their Endurance loss - Loremaster characters cannot.
• Only a Dwarf wearing a Dwarf-wrought Hauberk can add his favoured Body to Protection tests - any Loremaster character that has his armour rating underlined can add his Attribute level to a Protection test.

So, it would be important to know if Damage bonuses are also handled differently. That would be significant.

Not had a mountain troll yet, but I've done a great orc and a great spider. Both challenged the party but didn't kill any of them. The great spider was closest. It wounded one PC, brought another near to collapsing from exhaustion and froze two in their tracks with the fear effects.

What I'm saying is that without any mention of it acting differently, I don't know why there would be an assumption that it does.

Note that this is very similar wording to what AB159 uses for Brawling and Throwing attacks and I'm pretty sure that there it's a one-off bonus.

I have been treating Great and Extraordinary Success in combat as +Attribute and +2 *Attribute respectively for damage purposes.

Most adversaries only have 2 attack dice, so it does not crop up very often.

JamesRBrown, do you happen to have a reference for the forced Called Shot thing? I didn't know that and my players have a habit of rolling Eyes *evil laugh*

I'm not JamesRBrown, but he's referring to LMB65.

Hello everyone!

Sorry for the confusion, but the rules for damage bonuses for creatures are meant to work in the same way as for heroes (damage bonus x1 on a great success, x2 on an extraordinary success).

Thank you for flagging the source of the confusion - I can totally see how it can be interpreted the other way.

Francesco

Thanks Ovid

And for Brawling and Throwing too?

No problem. It's not completely anti-PC, though, because it's just the attempt that's triggered - the adversary could easily miss completely.

Thanks for clearing that up Francesco! Wow. Look out when a Mountain-troll crushes you with a 27 damage extraordinary success! Yikes! More good reasons to run away.

...obvious Troll is obvious!

Francesco

Don't forget the extra 9 damage from Great Size, that thing has a lot of hate to burn.

So that means it raises to a possible 36 damage in one hit.

Like I said earlier: "Who's for Pc Pancakes?"

Knockback is your friend.