I was just reading the Lowering Fatigue thread and it got me wondering if any Lore master had come up with any new sanctuaries for their games and if so what they were.

Or have folk just stuck to the ones on the map so far.

Not one of my own creation, but I love the idea of the Easterly Inn as a Sanctuary

In my game, there is an inn, The Stag and Roses, on the western edge of Mirkwood, where the road exits the forest.

It counts as a sanctuary (and there is evidence to support the innkeep being more than human) but thus far, none of the players have undertaken to make it a sanctuary.

My guess is the establishment of new Sanctuaries is a bit too undefined at the moment. The examples we have are only Tolkien inspired bastions of Free Peoples resistance to the Enemy; they're either fortified or magically supported s. Without alternate samples I think many LM's will feel awkward creating Sanctuaries which don't "measure up". Which is probably the exact reason the Easterly Inn was made available as a new, alternate Sanctuary.

Off the top of my head there are few places where a new Sanctuary might be situated - mainly because there are not too many "Safe Places" (per my definition in the Fear discussion).

I started to suggest some s, but it's easier to show you (the map is from MERP).

A couple notes:

• Remember if you're playing in a different time period, some of the evil s are strongholds of Good / Westernesse (Minas Ithil, Osgiliath, Dol Guldur [as Amon Lanc], etc)
• Rivendell and I believe Lothlorien are locked/reserved s. But obviously both are Sanctuaries once they're available.
• Dwarven s are not exact, they're representative. So there could be some dwarven outpost or moderate settlement within the vicinity. Or maybe there was once.
• I've included a few major Evil s so folks can orient themselves.
• The Angle... I believe it is the northerly of the two indicated , but I cannot recall ATM.
• Remember Saruman is still a good guy at the present time.
• The two blue Gondorian dots are Minas Tirith and Pelargir, respectively. I could not remember which cape Dol Amroth was located on - but that is a pretty long way to go to rest up from Rhovanion!

I have been dabbling with an idea to place a secret Sanctuary in the Misty Mountains, but its a very complex story idea which is not ready for presentation.

My own personal take on sanctuaries in TOR is that any sizeable settlement of the Freefolk could be one, as well as hidden refuges etc.
Several examples will be included in my piece on the 'Riders of Rhovanion' which(I hope) will be in the next issue of Other Minds.
A 'sanctuary' is a place where a person feels safe. This is obviously, highly, subjective and depends on what you are seeking sanctuary from. My own examples won't fend off the ravages of a cold drake or provide much protection from a Nazgul but should provide a safe , free of the standard perils that adventurers face.
Buhr Wenjan is the seat of power of Thyn Frithalf of the West Riding. As well as his household guard of more than a score of armoured riders, he has an equal number of mounted archers as a militia on constant standby and three times as many again that can be raised in a couple of days.
The settlement is big enough that most things from the fellowship phase can be attempted here as well as learning about mounted combat(there are also rules for this with new traits and Masteries). Thyn Frithalf would also make for a reasonable beginning patron.

I was thinking that it might be a pretty interesting forum activity to bounce some ideas around and come up with some usable details of a few new sanctuaries that people can insert into their games.

A few initial ideas I’ve had as suitable places are:

A dwarven settlement in the western part of the Iron Hills.

The raft-elf village mentioned in the Hobbit.

A Beorning sanctuary close to the high pass.

A woodsman town somewhere in that little wood north of the Gladden.

A small town further down the River Running.

What do people think, anybody interested in a little community project?

Hi Poosticks, a few queries/ideas on your sanctuary locales.
I'm not sure how many sanctuaries you want to spread across the adventure-scape, but I'd be sparing. The vast majority of Wilderland is .... well, just that.
Having said that, it's reasonable to place potential sanctuaries near areas you're developing for heroic adventure.
- Iron Hills sanctuary would be the halls of DainII's folk marked on the LM map (where he was based until he was crowned in Erebor).
- do you think Raft-Elf village is required as a sanctuary, with Esgaroth (& Thranduil's Halls) so close?
- a Beorning steading could be situated in the foothills of Eagles Eyrie (makes sense in light of their strong alliance). I think it would survey the Old Road approaching the High Pass. It could be the support community/marshalling point for the Beorning campaign to clear the Pass (& collect tolls)
- north(west) of Gladden the Woodsmen have Mountain Hall, though a hamlet in the Gladdenwood(?) would likely be a loose community of foragers, wood-workers, bee-keepers, herbalist/healer, foul-hunters, char-men, a forge & smithy, etc...
- on the Running River are you thinking of a site near the border of the Upper & Nether Marches? Or closer to the meeting with the Redwater? Perhaps a rustic trading post where Raft-Elves deal with Dorwinrim merchants and caravans from Rhun/further east? Horse traders from the grassy plains of Rhovanion may also do business here ...

Re- working on a community project - I'd like that but can't commit at the mo. Happy to think-tank when time permits

Well I'm not saying we should develop all of the ideas I mentioned. just throwing some idea out there really.

Whoops of course Dain II Iron Hills settlement was on the map (I should have looked at the map before I posted).

The Raft-Elves would be an interesting place to develop I think, (not necessarily as a sanctuary but it would be a good place to share some ideas about).

Yes a steading near the Eagles Eyrie does make sense. Could be an interesting place to develop further.

I think Gladdenwood (I like that for a name for the community) would be a nice place to develop further.

I think there is definitely room for more than one community along the River Running I don't know the best s for them but the meeting with the Redwater is certainly a likely place.

I'd add a small community near the East Bite to my list as well. I'm not sure exactly where Halbarad was thinking to place his Buhr Wenjan but I assume it somewhere near there.

Hi Cheesewyrm,

I get what you are saying about Wilderland, but you could have several hundred thousand folk living across that area and it still be as sparsely populated as Mongolia or Namibia.
The people are probably concentrated in certain areas but there is scope to add perhaps a half dozen or more other sizable settlements in the Dalelands alone.
Dale grows into a great Kingdom over a short space of time as the Dalish diaspora return home and Bard and his descendants expand down the Celduin and east to the Redwater. The battle for Dale lasts for three days and so there must not have been trivial numbers of warriors involved, hinting at a large(ish) population in the Kingdom at it's apogee.
I would place several largish settlements on the Running Valley and one or two in the Redwater valley. There might be a couple more west of Erebor in the Narrows. There are sources to provide some back up to these, although the Redwater settlements are just reasonable conjecture (IMO).

I suppose, though, it all boils down to personal taste and YMEMV.

Buhr Wenjan's has become slightly problematic since the release of TotW.
The characters would pass through it on the road to the Celduin Bridge. I think it's easy enough to rethink the scale of events in that particular adventure to permit it's continued in that area. I do, of course, realise that will not suit everyone.

Ah well I don't have the TotW book yet, so I'm not sure exactly whats included in it. What I have read sounds good though.

I'm led to believe that there is a new sanctuary called the Easterly Inn, (that Skywalker mention earlier in the thread) mentioned in one of the adventures.

Are there any others?

Halbarad,
True, almost any that can withstand casual assault (ie, a pack of wild animals and the odd small pirate/brigand/orc band is not willing to attack the settlement directly) is probably fine as a Sanctuary. But at present most LM's would have to create a , relevant NPCs, etc and make it a Sanctuary - kind of a tall order and why I said they might be waiting.

Buhr Wenjan and the Riders of Rhovanion sounds good. But then, I think most of the community is kind of waiting with baited breathe on it. Sorry to hear about the placement conflict.


Poosticks7,
Beorning/Eagles Eyrie/High Pass: It could be done and it sounds interesting. Something to keep in mind is somewhere in another thread (Population?) the idea of Goblin Town and the Warg Riders elicited the idea that this was effectively a cavalry unit that was capable of decimating any settlement along the western banks of the Anduin along the entire Misty Mountains. (Because whatever Goblin Town cavalry missed, Mount Gundabad or Moria would get.) Of course, time is an issue here. Mount Gundabad is probably understaffed due to Battle of 5 Armies. Moria should be fully populated. Isengard is not evil yet (so to speak), so Saruman's orcs are hiding underground ATM.

Mountain Hall: I haven't finished reading yet, but I know it is mentioned that Mountain Hall was previously razed to it's foundations so it might not be secure. It could act as a temporary Sanctuary though.

Gladdenwood: This might work. The Gladden Fields is a swamp (wetlands really) with lots of flowers (irises) as I recall.

River Running: Someone was working on a town between the arms of Running and Redwater. I think that was for private use, primarily.

Raft Elves: As stated, does not make sense with proximity to so many other Sanctuaries. But I agree it might be an interesting development idea for an adventure and/or sourcebook.

East Bight: MERP conjecture had the Kingdom of Rhovanion in the East Bight to Rhun area, although I am not sure how canon that is. Its the right general area, just not sure how exact. But I think Dorwinion is there as well.

Community Project: I'm willing to give it consideration although I have no idea how much time I've got. ATM I'm quite busy but thats only through this weekend.

When I said community project I didn't exactly mean people would have to make any kind of commitment. I just meant people could chip in with ideas and thoughts. Sharing ideas can only help us all.*

Of course everybody will have their own tastes but sometimes you see an idea and think - I kind of like that but I'm going to put a slightly different twist on it. Which is obviously fine. The same goes for campaign and adventure ideas as well really.

*Although I must get out of the mindset that everyone on these forums is a Lore master and consider that players probably come here too.

I don't think that the Raft Elves neccessarilly "lack sense" due to the proximity of other Sanctuaries. On the contrary, I think they make sense in part for this very reason. The encampment is likely safer and more secure due to the friendly neighbors and high traffic.

I think what is required for a "Sanctuary" is just that it provide a safe haven from foes and a place to rest and recover in comfortable surroundings. There are likely many such places dotted about the land but not indicated on the maps. A simple farmstead could serve the purpose. I don't think every Sanctuary needs to be extensively detailed by the LM. Some can be passed over with a brief narration.

I certainly would not count the whole of Breeland and the Shire as a Sanctuary. There are a lot of wild areas and sleeping rough in the fields is not resting in a Sanctuary. Remember too that the Nazgul attacked the Prancing Pony in the heart of Bree, as well as Crickhollow and visiting Bag-end in Hobbiton.

As for the wolf-rider cavalry, I do not believe there is any such thing as a standing unit in the Misty Mountains. Tolkien allude sto an alliance of wolves and goblins and states that some of the larger wolves bore goblins as riders. I think the Warg riders are an ad hoc formation not a trained and maintained formal unit.

YMMV. I will gladly admit that I put the story ahead of the rules in crafting a fun game.

Oh I see, now I'm picking up what you're putting down.
OK yep - then count me in on said community, happy to share ideas where & when able

*If you're a TOR player & not a LoreMaster AND you're taking the time to read the forums, then it's time to pull your breeches up and start LMing a game for your friends! IMHO you're privvy to some fine discussion & think-tanking on game management, design & adventure-ideas, so I reckon you'll find ample inspiration to create some gaming fun for your group (and mayhaps share your worthy experiences in the forums).
'Nuff said

Hi Halbarad - yep I agree there'd be numerous communities along the Celduin and in its catchment (& some frontier-ish ones on the Carnen). The 2 s I mentioned are simply where I'd likely establish larger 'sanctuary-worthy' communities. I am particularly fond of the idea of a market-town at the confluence of Running & Redwater.

As you suggest re- Sanctuaries, their prevalence is really a matter of LM preference - there is no right or wrong.... whatever helps to create an interesting & enjoyable story right?
In my saga a defining quality of a Sanctuary is that a personality of sufficiently high Valour &/or Wisdom abides/frequents there - who is willing to provide boons, share experiences & host/assist the Player-Heroes. I feel this is in the spirit of the concept of Sanctuaries and the Fellowship Phase. Also, as Heroes can recover from Corruption better in a Sanctuary than even their own home, I am reticent to make them too common.
That said - when my band of Player-Heroes choose to devote a Fellowship Phase to Opening a New Sanctuary - they deserve for that to be developed if at all workable in my saga.

Well, I'm open to feedback on this. (I'm neither an authority on TOR rules nor uber-experienced LoreMaster .... yet!)
Crikey, I begin to blather. Ciao for now!

I think you hit the nail on the head there CheeseWyrm. Perhaps we should begin with a suitable Patron to go with each Sanctuary idea.

Hmmm.

I'll have a think about it.

Good work Garn.

Beorning/Eagles Eyrie/High Pass: With Beorn becoming more proactive as a leader of men after Bo5A, the development of such a steading/fort for the Beorning community is a worthy project for Heroes to participate in. It would definitely be a rigourous challenge (wolves & goblins & trolls... Oh my!)
I'm fairly sure the Beornings do eventually clear the Pass enough to start charging tolls.

Mountain Hall/Gladdenwood: With Mountain Hall having been razed in the past, perhaps the GladdenWood community/Sanctuary was the base for its rebuilding, & continues to be its major source of supply and communications with Woodmen communities further afield. Plenty of heroic adventure here for sure (proximity to Moria!)
It just might take a hardy band of Heroes to finally tame the highlands enough to secure the Hall and create a Sanctuary there.

Both of the above are similar stories on the face of it, but I think it's unlikely any LM would choose to develop both plots with the same Player-Heroes ... then again, we know how creative and tricksy ol' LMs can be.

That sounds like a good idea but then, many of the existing 'potential' sanctuaries don't have named patrons residing there.


It still sounds like a good starting point for developing new sanctuaries though.

If I recall correctly, the Upper Anduin Vale is the only "free land" on the map (along with the Lothlorien and Rivendell); which would suggest that indeed, the Beornings/Eagles have been more efficient in defending their territory than anyone else.

Okay well I was thinking about the question of why Gladdenwood might have avoided being attacked by the Orcs of the Misty Mountains. What I came up with as a possible reason is quite intriguing.

My initial thought was that it was a relatively new settlement. Settled since the Battle of the Five Armies.

Maybe the settlers were just naive to think it would be safe to settle on that side of the River Anduin. Although it could be argued that the presence of the Beornings to the north would certainly make the land safer.

Still raiding Goblins would still be a problem. What the settlers needed was a strong leader.

It got me thinking who could that be?

Then my brain made a connection - who had an interest in that area during that period?

Saruman was searching that area for the ring of power.

Which got me thinking:

Was he doing the search alone or did he have agents in the area? Perhaps the 'leader' of Gladdenwood.
Did he have a base camp that he used for his search? Could it have been Gladdenwood?
Could Saurman have already made a pact with the tribes of the Misty Mountains to leave that area alone? Or perhaps his very presence in that area during that period was enough to keep any serious attacks from happening?

Maybe the folk of Gladdenwood are not aware they are being used as dupes.

So in reality the place is a Sanctuary but also has shadowy secrets that keep it safe.


Then I noticed something else - the place I name Gladdenwood does not appear on the maps in LotR only in the map of Wilderland in the Hobbit. Does something happen to the wood in the years between? Perhaps they are burnt to the ground after Saruman finishes his search (maybe to cover his tracks, or maybe for some unknown reason).


Does this idea seem feasible? It obviously needs developing more but I think it certainly has some strong story elements that don't clash with the established Lore. Or does it? Am I missing something?

I think that's just the kind of thinking that allows a campaign to feel part of a "living" world rather than just a background retelling of LotR while still remaining true to "canon".

Poosticks,

The wood you are referring to Features quite prominently in the third(?) adventure in TotW.

Yay Poosticks - your brainstorming got me thinking more on our GladdenWood!
(So the Woodmen erect a large wooden palisade at Mountain Hall carved with "GladdenWoodLand", but the orcs razed the Land .... Now they look to the hills and read "GladdenWood"! .... JOKING! Don't hate me!)

GladdenWood becomes a prospering hamlet after Bo5A (& the Necromancers eviction from Dol Guldur), when Shadow activity in the Anduin Vale lulls.... a more peaceful time to formally settle sites west of Anduin, and especially - as you point out - as the Beornings are taking a more proactive role in the region. There may be demand for Heroes to secure a new minor trade-route between GladdenWood and the new Beorning High Pass steading...?

I think originally in GladdenWood there existed a Woodmen camp (base for forays to the Mountain Hall site) plus hunters and a smith (ex-Mountain Hall). Also a trading post where quiet marsh-folk (inc. maybe fishermen, potters, basket-weavers, rope-makers, peat-harvesters, bird-catchers, maybe a shy Stoor frogger or two) exchange goods with the Woodmen (for wood, game meat, skins, berries & shrooms, metal wares, dairy goods, ale, etc). This rustic trading post likely has an adjoining taproom.

I like the idea that Saruman has agency in this place. It's almost without doubt that he'd be active in the area, albeit subtly. I agree that he'd have a minion in a position of power. That could be the Woodmen leader (or his right-hand man) OR my preference is the current proprietor of the old trading post (ideally placed to gather information from both Woodmen & marsh-folk, communicate with agents of Orthanc, and influence local activity).
I think the Woodmen leader may be a militaristic type who is keen to secure the site of Mountain Hall and re-establish it as a fort. (Good luck with that!)

When Saruman realizes he's wasted his energies in the area, he would cease his activities (which had served to protect & buffer the region) and eventually encourage orcs to pillage the community (for resources & to erase his machinations). Both Mountain Hall and GladdenWood would likely fall prey to increasing raids as Saruman starts to show his White Hand at the end of the Third Age.

I'm not aware of anything canonical that argues against our proposed Gladdenwood developments. Can anyone else find a hitch? Anyone... Bueller? Bueller?

An afterthought - the ruins of GladdenWood may later serve as a supply camp on Grimbeorn's route to assist in the defense of Lorien against the Shadow assault from Mirkwood during the War of The Ring (my conjecture here - there's neither confirmation nor argument in the canon of this Beorning activity. I just think it rocks!)

Oh drat it!
After all that cogitating and steam release...
I'll get back to you after I read that TotW adventure and see what we can do to save our efforts.

Thanks for the heads-up Halbarad!

Damn I thought we were on to something there.

I don't really want to contradict the adventures in TotW because I plan to run them when I get the book.

Can you tell us if there is any mention of the wood being settled at all?

Just took a cursory look at TotW adventure 5 - "A Darkness In The Marshes".
- Mountain Hall is occupied by Woodmen (with own chieftain), and is well detailed
- Gladden Fields has an eerie Shadow presence
- our 'Gladdenwood' is not really detailed, although a bandit camp (not detailed) is situated there on the map
- there's a fair bit of goblin activity in the area.

So I think our plans for Gladdenwood are defunct if one intends to use the published adventure.
Oh well Poosticks .... Perhaps our ideas can be transposed/adapted to some other suitable (yet to be detailed) ??

Damn oh well never mind.

Unless we flesh out the bandit camp to be an area used by Saruman's cronies maybe. So not so much a sanctury but perhaps an interesting adventure/encounter site maybe.

I guess developing a Beorning settlement near the High Pass might be a better place then.

The bandit chief and his motivations are very well defined, Poosticks.I'm not sure that the agents of Saruman's idea can fit them.

Ah, never mind then.

Sorry folks - I must've missed the details of the bandit chief ... oops!
When I find the time I'll sit down & read all the TotW adventures (can't wait!)

LOL! That's ok, I missed this entire thread. Although I must confess I was thrown by the reference to "TotW" instead of "TfW". Thought C7 had snuck a product past me.

Oops again ... I've really got to pick my act up.
Too much roquefort & not enough cheddar!

Not to be put off by my last idea clashing with an adventure in Tales from the Wild I'm back with a new idea.


Okay I’ve been thinking of a likely leader/patron for the Beorning steading/fort situated near the Eagles Erie (name to be decided upon) and I thought about making it a Ranger of the North.

What What What why a Ranger, I here you ask? Well I just had this notion that the Rangers probably had agents out and about across the North gathering news and keeping an eye on things and I struck upon the idea of an old veteran sent by the leader of the Rangers (whoever that would be at this moment in time) to set up a waystation/resupply/sanctuary type place for the roaming Rangers. Someone who was getting too old to be ranging himself.

I named him Galadan.

So with a letter of recommendation from Gandalf the old Dunadan sets out and arrives in the Vale of Anduin just as Beorn is beginning to gather new followers. Beorn quickly sees the worth of Galadan and the old ranger soon earns a place of trust within the Beornings.

When the task of keeping the High Pass open is undertaken, Galadan’s lore and leadership are invaluable and he soon becomes an important member of the leadership of the new stronghold. Whist at the same time acting as eyes and ears for the Rangers of the North in the area and a valuable safe haven for Rangers and Elves who have business on the eastern side of the Misty Mountains.

Well that all I got so far. What do you think? I believe an old Ranger could certainly fit as a viable patron for a bunch of adventures in the area near the high pass, and if they prove their worth he may tell them of a secret sanctuary situated on the western side of the Misty Mountains – The Home of Elrond HalfElven.

This is awkward because you kind of mix into the "gritty world" issue where certain actions per the RAW would entail taking Shadow Points for lying, stealing, etc. Spies, thugs, politicians/diplomats and many others will also have this same problem.

Is Beorn aware that Galadan is a Ranger and is equivalent to a spy? I doubt Beorn, or any other leader, would be likely to accept someone of questionable allegiance in so vital a position. Alternately, if Beorn is aware of Galadan's situation, it represents an alliance between the two cultures.

Galadan might be in the area and overseeing (spying) on what the Beornings are doing without attempting to become a member of the Beorning culture. Perhaps posing as a trapper, miner, hermit or whatever allows him to stay in the general area and move around, without a permanent, fixed home .

Well that was one reason why I mentioned a letter from Gandalf (someone Beorn trusts). Although whether Beorn is aware of Galadan's allegiance could be played either way, I suppose.

I think the Beornings must surely operate by a kind of meritocracy, with Beorn himself deciding who he trusts. So if Galadan proves himself useful, I think Beorn would certain consider his council.

I also don't think he's necessarily doing anything worthy of shadow points by spying on the Beornings, otherwise I think Aragorn and Gandalf would be racking them up as well .

I see merit in both arguments, which leads me to propose a few alternatives...

Firstly, perhaps Galadan (I like the name BTW) spent many active years on Ranger missions in the Anduin Vales and the greater Rhovanion region, and has retired from active duty to settle with his wife (a Beorning or Woodmen lady) and call this area home. This effectively allows him to become a Beorning for all intensive purposes, but he still could retain some affiliation with the Rangers (& Gandalf).

If you decide that Galadan shouldn't be the community leader then he may still be an esteemed elder of the fledgling community - as he is the best hunter/tracker/guide for the region, knowing the area's secrets better than any other. Considering this and his Ranger/Gandalf affiliations he easily remains a viable patron option.

Re- the new community growing in the uplands below Eagles Eyrie I suggest possible names:
Heahburg - Old English for High Fort (it's positioned to view the road to High Pass) perhaps shorten to Harburg, OR
Beraburg (OE- Bear Fort) shorten to Barburg, OR
Earnburg (OE- Eagle Fort)

As you can see - I definitely think this steading/community would be a fort, considering the proximity to goblin & warg activity. They would spend considerable time & resources continually improving their defenses.
Thank Manwe for the Eagles!

Galadan had an interest in beekeeping over the years, and in his 'retirement' he has honed his craft. His honey is much sought after.... Another reason the Beornings respect him.
What do you think? (Perhaps his wife is a brewer and their mead is popular?)

Oh, now I want a mug of mead!

Good ideas CheeseWyrm.

I pretty much like everything you typed

I think I like Earnburg best out of your options.

I agree it needs to be a fort.

Galadan the old beekeeper with a colourful past and a feisty beorning wife named Guthwyn, famed for her brewing skills. I like it.

Sounds good.