I am sure I am missing/overlooking this. I have flipped through both books looking for the answer and must have passed right by it. But what exactly do Sanctuaries do in the game? I know they are not needed for "Prolonged Rest". Shadow is recovered during the Fellowship Phase. And Hope is taken from the Fellowship itself. They must be of significance since it takes all of the group to spend there Fellowship Phase to make a new one.

So any help would be appreciated along with the page numbers associated with Sanctuaries.

Sanctuaries must be where a character spends his Fellowship Phase in order to recover from Shadow points.

Any safe place can allow recovery of Fatigue with a prolonged Rest.

Any prolonged rest (safe or otherwise) can recover Endurance



NOTE: most on here have agreed that "SAFE" place is defined by players feeling like they can rest without need of a "watch" among them.

That's not quite right.

Adventurer's Book, p. 172: "Characters spending their Fellowship phase in a sanctuary are entitled to two rolls [to heal corruption], while heroes who returned home are allowed a single roll instead."

Sanctuaries will also grant you entry automatically. Any other place will require that you get permission for that Fellowship Phase first. See Open New Sanctuary on p. 173.

Naturally, a sanctuary automatically qualifies as a "safe place."

Thanks.

I was going by memory - and I knew as I wrote it I should take the time to look it up before espousing anything; and of course I got Shadow and Corruption mixed up.

Good advice given to self - and ceremoniously ignored for sake of laziness. So we wind up with where we are now.

Next time maybe I'll take the time to look it up.......but probably not.

Better check on your shadow points. Looks like you may be experiencing a bout of madness.

Ok. So the main benefit is an increase in your chance to remove shadow. Not a bad thing. Definitely worth having more sanctuaries spread far a wide then. I just missed that bit when referencing the book. Kinda wish the index was more helpful.

Having another place you can always call home is nice as well. So here's a question. In your opinion's, how much trouble would a party have with getting in to a that is the home town for a party member? Would a party with a Dwarf from under the mountain really need to make a roll to get into Erebor? This came up in game. I just played it that players are always welcome at home. I had the rest of the party make rolls and failures were the responsibility of the home town character. "We are watching you."

To each his own, but similar issues have presented themselves in my campaign. Essentially, the elf of the party wanted the same hospitality from Thranduil to the others in the party that he received - even to the dwarf and the hobbits both of whom the elves of Mirkwood have reasons to have prejudices towards.

The way it was played out was that they were allowed within the border area; but do not have access to all of the areas under the caves of Thranduil. And the elf PC had to remain in close proximity to the them the entire time.


This corrected itself within game - as this allowed for story development for the PCs to want to prove themselves to King Thranduil and did two important deeds for him. Now they have full access to Thranduil's Realm there and can make it a sanctuary if they choose to - or opt to have him as a Patron.

When the time comes, similar situation will occur in Erebor. Of course the PCs will have access to the visitor and merchant halls; but this will only motivate them to want to do great adventures to help the dwarves to win their loyalty too.

I cannot recall the scene from the books (the mind is fuzzy), but in PJ's movies, Aragorn had to argue the exact same point with Haldir(?), the warden of Lothlorien. Aragorn was welcome to enter Lothlorien freely, some others only under strict conditions.

Honestly, with as sly as Sauron is, I don't think any non-evil leader is unreasonable when he attempts to limit the access to, and critical information learned about, the domain they lead and protect.

Consider the implications if we learn, as Sam & Frodo enter Mount Doom to be seized by a patiently waiting Sauron and his minions, that Sam has always been a spy working for Sauron? Just how much could Sam reveal about the various places and people that believed he was a simple, ignorant hobbit? (Hmm, actually this might make a very interesting Alternate Middle-earth storyline.)

I have to agree with y'all there. Maybe I was to friendly with the party. It would be more fun to make them work for it. And make gaining Sanctuaries more valuable. Even so, I think the area from the Lonely Mountain to Lake Town would be a little more open to each other. But still...it's been 5 years since the alliance. More than enough time for old suspicions to weed it's way back into different societies outlook. Especially with the corrupting influence of shadow still out there. Might make an interesting story to see if Dul Gudur's return would sparks those misgivings or unify everybody.

Hmmm, might be a campaign about that.

Since the Necromancer has left and the Battle of Five Armies has, for the time, diminished the orcs in the region, I have set the tone that the Shadow is being driven back in Mirkwood and the Elves, Dwarves and Men are doing much in the way of co-operation.

I have even lowered the level of shadow tests in some regions on the Lore Master's map as the characters have overcome enemies. The Elf-path is open for traders and the dark times seem like they are behind everyone.

In 2951 (after 12 sessions we are in 2948), when Sauron declares himself in Mordor and the Ring Wraiths return to Dol Guldur, much of the feelings of fellowship and co-operation will disappear. That is when established Sanctuaries will be of more importance. So for my group, while they got used to the system over the past year, I haven't been too harsh. But dark times are ahead.

I am trying to give a sense of hope, followed by a desperate battle against the slow decline into Shadow.

You have it right Templar & Cleggster, the Men of Dale have indeed been enjoying the cooperation & assistance of both the Dwarves & Thranduil's Elves in the rebuilding of Dale and Laketown.

With my Player-Heroes all meeting and commencing their saga in Laketown, I allowed each of them to have both Laketown AND their home as established Sanctuaries.

I too dealt with the question of how other party-Heroes are treated when in the home-Sanctuary of one Hero. My philosophy on this is akin to SirKicley's - in that the visitors generally do not have Sanctuary benefits and are treated as guests (& responsibility) of the 'home-Hero'.
I apply the Tolerance & Interaction mechanics during their stay to guide me on the host attitude & how it may change toward the Heroes. Of course the Heroes' actions play a major role here in accruing interaction successes, ie: where they've impressed their hosts, performed services, etc.

Depending on how complex one wants to make this process - predetermine the quantity of positive impressions required by the Heroes to gain improving levels of reputation/esteem from their hosts.
As an example - the initial host attitude to the Heroes may be curt acknowledgement / no freedom to move around the locale unless with a guard, courtier or escort / the 'home-Hero' must make a bond with the host to be answerable for the Heroes.
With accrued positive impressions the Heroes may eventually be granted freedom to move around as they wish, interact with the community, approach the court, etc. At some point the 'guest-Heroes' will be able to spend a Fellowship phase to petition their host and establish a Sanctuary for the whole party.

If one is super-conscientious one could establish a system for building/maintaining Standing in each Sanctuary (similar to a Hero's home-Standing). I certainly haven't found the time or motivation (yet!) to develop this at all.

A question arises in my campaign from giving each player-Hero their home as a Sanctuary.... what does the 'home-Hero' get to undertake in their Fellowship phase when the remainder of the party finally get to Open New Sanctuary?
One could still require the 'home-Hero' to make the same undertaking - as they are working to acquaint their friends to the community and enhance their local reputation.
Despite that argument I decided to allow a 'home-Hero' to choose their own undertaking - the hometown advantage in a sense.

Tuppence for your thoughts?

I have to admit that the idea of home being a sanctuary was something I was going to work in. But realizing what sanctuaries are, for the group, I kinda turned from it. I think even home town would not be a VERY welcoming place at first. After all, you abandoned home for adventure. Depending on the culture, that could really mean something. (Hobbits) Also, that's what Standing means to me. At least why everyone starts at 0. Get some Standing, and the town leaders might be more welcoming to your other party members.

Obviously to each their own. For me, I am leaning towards anything that makes Sanctuaries, Standing and anything else earned in the Fellowship Phase to be really valuable.

I wholeheartedly agree - the reward structures and character development aspects of the Fellowship Phase add greatly to the narrative.... as does the opportunity to identify player-Hero ambitions, and introduce subplots, adventure hooks & rumours.
(TOR certainly resolves some of the issues I had with 'downtime' in D&D campaigns)

Ditto.

In D&D 'downtime' is "we're crafting......."

While the fighter picks his nose waiting for the wizard to be done.

I think individual characters' Homes as separate places from the company's Sanctuaries is a good thing. Part of the role of the characters is to gradually unify the Free Peoples, and the process of turning one's Home into a Sanctuary should be a big deal in-game. In becoming a Sanctuary, any place becomes a rallying point for all who would fight the Shadow.

Hi, Cleggster!
I agree with your position on Sanctuaries, including your previous: "It would be more fun to make them work for it. And make gaining Sanctuaries more valuable." Locations that are potential Sanctuaries are by definition already safe places for people to rest up etc., regardless of whether they've 'opened' them as Sanctuaries. We're looking at what more they can offer once 'opened'.

As it requires a "collective undertaking" to open a Sanctuary, that implies that a single individual can't as easily impress everyone to achieve "cemented relations with the important personalities of the place" as a strong Fellowship with a full range of talents and proven deeds behind them. I think this argues against characters automatically having their home at full Sanctuary status: not everyone who lives in a place necessarily comes to the attention of the important personalities, let alone gains their active goodwill.

I think I'd argue that even Lake-town, whilst fine to be treated as a safe , shouldn't automatically be a Sanctuary for starting characters! All the significant personalities of Lake-town automatically have all the time in the world for every traveller that crosses their bridges? No. Again, let the characters have to work to impress them sufficiently! (Is it even tempting to make Opening a Sanctuary cost a point of XP, so that a character has to have done something to be able to do it at all?)

But what does the active goodwill of the significant figures in a get you?

So storytelling to -- and comparing notes with and learning from the experiences of -- the right, significant personalities in a Sanctuary enhances characters' ability to dispel the effects of the Shadow that would otherwise weigh them down.
That's good in itself, but to go with "making gaining Sanctuaries more valuable", it would also be good to make more of it...
The obvious benefit to gain from the active goodwill of the significant figures of Middle-earth is 'training' -- the furtherance of your skills. But altering that is in danger of unbalancing the game. If LMs are comfortable with letting characters have faster advancement than in the RAW, I might suggest reducing the AP cost of advancing Common Skills by 1 (or 1/4), and perhaps the XP cost of advancing Weapons Skills and Wisdom, when in an opened Sanctuary. (I'm not sure the same logic would apply for Valour, although I wouldn't rule it out.)

Cheers!
--Os

That's a cool idea. I would probably restrict that in some manor. Oh, maybe different sanctuaries have different bonuses of the type you mentioned.

I have been bandying about the idea of letting members of the party remove 1 point of shadow whenever they get a prolonged rest at a sanctuary. Perhaps a roll of some kind. This stems from the fact that the group has done 1 adventure and has accumulated a fair amount of shadow so far. Might give them the desire to retreat to a sanctuary for healing, but that doesn't require a fellowship phase. My group is already asking when they can do a fellowship phase. But I want to limit it to about 1 a year if I can.

Maybe when they retire to a sanctuary, they get 1 point of shadow off for free, then they make a roll on the Feat die. (Possible optional) Get a Gandalf and they get an extra point off, roll Lidless Eye they lose the point they gained.

Cleggster,
If you're going to consider removing Shadow, you might want to limit this mechanism to prevent potential issues. My suggestions:

• Only Temporary Shadow points may be healed.
• Once a Bout of Madness is indicated, the Shadow has become Permanent and cannot be healed. (Remember, per RAW, madness can be triggered after it has afflicted the character's psyche.)
• Healing Temporary Shadow is a Fellowship Phase action that can only be attempted at a Sanctuary. The affected character may not attempt other actions during that time.
• It requires a very long rest, of no less than a month's game time, to heal a Temporary Shadow point. This time may be extended based on the LM's campaign needs.
• Characters can heal Temporary Shadow points at any time, up until a Bout of Madness is indicated.
• Only one Temporary Shadow point may be healed at a time. Bonus healing may be awarded if the LM feels it is warranted; excellent recovery description by the player, the availability of especially capable healers, extraordinary success if dice rolls are used, etc.
• Only two attempts to heal Temporary Shadow points are allowed per calendar game year. (A Condition tickbox might be needed on Character Sheets so this is not forgotten.)
• Optional Dice Roll: If the LM prefers a dice roll instead of automatic success, or to see if bonus healing occurs, the player should roll either:
  • A Wits Test at TN 18, adding one Success Die for each point of Wits (logical healing).
  • A Heart Test at TN 18, adding one Success Die for each point of Heart (emotional healing).
  whichever is greater or the LM feels is more appropriate to the situation. (Normal, not Favoured.)

Otherwise you will have characters having Bouts of Madness every two or three sessions, as they sit at the cusp and their total Shadow wavers back and forth. So, they adventure gain a point, suffer madness, go to Rivendell, get healed. But then they go adventuring again and ...

Hmm.. you know in retrospect we've just added a Sanity Check to LOTR. So you folks better be careful or Cthulhu might come Calling!

This post has been edited by Garn on Jul 12 2012, 04:05 PM

Well, it became moot since nobody showed up for the game. Combination of people being busy/sick/and I have no idea. So never came up.

But while I agree with Garn's statement about being careful with shadow, I am a little confused by some of his points. As it is now you can NEVER get rid of permanent shadow. Also you get to make a song/craft test as a Fellowship Phase Undertaking to remove shadow. Between 2-6 points of it. 4-12 points in a sanctuary. That's why I was thinking letting them get between 0-2 points off during the adventure phase might make Sanctuaries a little more valuable. Do people here find that there players are becoming miserable after 1 or 2 adventures.

This does bring to mind another question I have. How often do Loremasters here let there players have Fellowship phases? The books seem to say that it's up to the players. And that they can do it any time as long as they spend at least a week to do it. I want to limit it a little to make it a significant event. But once a year as I was originally planning might be a bit to long for some players.

By the way. I love the idea of calling it a Sanity check. My players are also in a Call of Cathulu campaign right now.

My group complete 2-3 adventures per year and have a Fellowship Phase after each, unless there's insufficient time for one (like between the 6th and 7th adventures of Tales from Wilderland).

No one is miserable yet, but Shadow is creeping up and Hope dwindling.

They have a Fellowship Pool of 6 points (4 members, 1 Hobbit and a Beorning with twice baked honey cakes).

So far my group has had one, and they'll have another one toward the end of the year (which is coming up). Unfortunately, it's been several months since we've been able to play

My players are pretty terrified of Shadow points, so they'll definitely welcome this next Fellowship Phase and I know exactly what their undertaking will be