I've thought recently that it would be cool to place Saruman in one of TOR adventures - but Saruman from before the time of his rebellion. He would be cunning, scheming, but still opposing darkness (and wouldn't have orc and wolf armies!); essentially, he could make an interesting patron/mentor character. I don't know, though, if it would be canonical.

Do you know from what time Saruman started to gather armies and breed Uruk-Hai? In the time of One Ring, is Isengard still accessible to outsiders?

I'm a little confused with the date you posted. The One Ring is set in 2945 onwards isn't it? Or is that the date of your campaign?

As to Saruman and Isengard he takes over in 2953, the same year as the last meeting of the White Council, also when he tells them the Ring was washed down to the sea.

He likely starts build an army at this point (though probably Dunlendings to start with). He also begins to spy on Gandalf and sends agents to Bree and the Shire.

I would say that he'd be keeping any orc connections he may have made quiet at this point. Isengard is possibly still a green a welcoming place for allies of the wise.

At some point around 2990, he begins breeding orcs with men. (So he must have orc followers by this point).

around 3000 Saruman uses the palantir and is ensnared by Sauron and becomes a traitor to the White Council. Saruman learns from his spies that the Rangers are guarding the Shire.

Remember though that Gandalf did not suspect Saruman until it was too late. Though Gandalf was kind of busy.

I guess it would all be a secret up until around the time of the War of the Ring, maybe a little bit before.

Anyway hope this helps.

I've been doing just this, placing the focus of the current campaign in the value of Anduin. Saruman has a number of Dunlendings working for him. So far, the characters only know that the Dunlendings ("men from the south") are working for a mysterious "Sharkey". They have witnessed a "bright jewel" being handed to a young fair-haired horsemen by these men. The horseman was encountered later, where they learnt his name - Galmod of Rohan.

The orcs in the region are allied to Sauron (gradually returning to Dol Guldur) or are mountain goblins, with some early signs of the red eye making an appearance (I'm presuming that this symbol wasn't openly used by Sauron before the War of the Ring).

I've worked in scenes from the Tales of Wilderland books, with Saruman (hidden, working through agents) on one side, the Gibbet King on the other and the players in the middle.

Saruman is using Orthanc from 2759 TA, though the ring of Isenguard is still deemed as Gondorian territory and a small garrison resides there (Unfinished Tales). In 2953, he claims Isenguard as his own and begins to fortify it. It can be assumed that the orc breeding programme starts from this date (2953), though it may not happen until he comes under the influence of Sauron (3000). This is 2 years after Sauron declares himself publically (2951), so Saruman could be arguing that he is just protecting the region after Gondor has shown little interest in preserving the fortifications.

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/chronicle.htm...r=3016&endage=3

Valarian, that's awesome, I am doing the exact thing in my campaign. Saruman has a group of Southrons and Dunlendings "Dredging" the river, looking for the Ring. They even closed down the Fords of Anduin under the guise of a bridge-rebuilding project. My players encountered this in "Those Who Tarry No Longer" while they were trying to Irime across to the Misty Mountains. You can read my account of this in the Iron Gamers Guild Tales from Wilderland thread...

Basically yes, though it's a bit more complicated

Since the end of the Kings in Gondor and during the Watchful Peace the western regions of Calenardhon have been increasingly stripped of military personnel and people migrated eastward to strengthen the Anduin line. In Angrenost (Isengard) a garrison remained, which over time mixed with dunnish people trickling in. In the mid-27th century (after the death of Aldor of Rohan) this became obvious and in TA 2710 the Rohirrim found out the hard way that the last Dúnedain of the garrison had either died or been slain by the new dunnish lords, effectivley occupying the fortress (excluding the closed tower of Orthanc) and making it a dunnish stronghold. Thus at the latest by the first decade of the 28th century the last Gondorian garrison loyal to Minas Tirith had vanished from Angrenost. Gondor seemed not to care about it for whatever reason (perhaps they had more pressing problems and scarce resources) and the Rohirrim were unable to oust them. So the dunnish occupation lasted until the aftermath of the Long Winter almost 50 years later. Then this garrison was defeated together with the rest of Wulf's forces. It was exactly at this moment that Saruman offered to secure Orthanc and Angrenost by offering to move there. Due to the past troubles with the dunnish occupation and the strategic problems posed by a hostile power in Angrenost, both the Steward Beren and King Fréalaf were very happy to have this powerful ally securing this strategic position.

It is not known whether Saruman was issued a Gondorian garrison again or whether he proposed to organize this himself. In light of his personality and motives, I'd bet that it was the latter and Gondor was happy to have one problem less to think about itself. At first I guess Saruman mainatined an open and friendly policy towards his neighbours, but later on it's as you say: straying from the right path and falling from grace. Since we know that Saruman began secretly searching for the One at the Gladden Fields by TA 2851, this is the last possible time for his fall from grace and desire to become a lord himself. Since this does usually not happen overnight, I'd guess that since about TA 2800 Saruman slowly began his path toward corruption and fall from grace.

Cheers
Tolwen

This sounds like a great idea!

Poosticks7 is correct with each of the dates in terms of Saruman's occupation of Isengard & plotting.

The only thing I'll add is to mention Gandalf's (apparent) surprise when he detected Saruman's breeding of Orcs (not to mention the Wargs he penned) during the latter's betrayal & imprisonment of Mithrandir. So, if you want to write this close to the books & have your heroes investigate after Saruman breeds Orcs & Wargs, just remember to subtly keep the monsters hidden & you'll have a great adventure.

If you decide to allow your players to discover the Orcs, however, then you'll have a heck of a time scrambling afterward to write everything anew - they'll really re-write Middle-earth's history (not that it's a bad thing, mind, but a lot of work for you)

Thanks for all your replies! Of course I messed it up with the year. I was thinking about the time of action of The One Ring, so the title of this topic should be 2945 onwards, as Poosticks7 pointed out.

I'm going to stick to the canon and I'm not planning to introduce Saruman's orcs in my campaign. The idea of Saruman's agents in Wilderland, though, looks great. I'm GMing Kinstrife & Dark Tidings from Tales of Wilderland now, so there's still plenty of place for them. Maybe Darkness in the Marches could use a brave Saruman envoy in the Mountain Hall?

Yes, the bandits in the woods as a force of Dunlendings sent north is a theme I've used.

With my players having an expectation that Saruman is becoming corrupt I was planning to spin it on it's head - have him sending bands of "brigands" to assail a village. The company hears of it and that the employer is a mysterious "Sharkey" (possibly even throw in the white S rune at some point).

The players out of game knowledge will lead them to assume that this is evidence of his corruption and evil and possibly defend the village - however the villages have fallen under the influence of the Shadow and Saruman is acting against them, indirectly, but with good intentions. The "Brigands" are no more than honest hired swordsmen.

Saruman would have started using Orcs and Dunlendings to harass Rohan and Fangorn in TA 2953 of afterwards, after he took Isengard for his own and fortified it. This was probably also when he started breeding his Half-orcs.