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> Should Elves Experience Fatigue?
frodolives
Posted: Oct 28 2012, 09:05 PM
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In house ruling the otherwise brilliant The One Ring RPG, I've considered allowing elves to automatically pass all Travel (fatigue) tests, because I can see no evidence that elves suffer from fatigue in any Tolkien work. Legolas, alone of the three hunters, does not grow weary during their chase of the orcs. Can anyone point me to evidence that either confirms or contradicts my opinion?
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Tensen01
Posted: Oct 28 2012, 10:04 PM
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I could maybe see giving Elves a Bonus, But allowing them to not roll cheats you out of the chance for Hazards from the elves (which I am already finding hard enough to come by myself) and cheats them out of the chance to earn advancement points for making those rolls.

Keep in mind as well that Legloas is already probably a very experienced Elf "adventurer" who has a high travel skill and is not very encumbered.

Remember, failing a fatigue doesn't actually do anything to the character until that fatigue meets their Endurance. I very much doubt they traveled long enough for that to show on Legolas who carried little equipment and even less armor, not to mention his probably success on his rolls.


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Beran
Posted: Oct 28 2012, 10:34 PM
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I think I saw some where that elves don't need as much sleep to recover from fatigue as the other races do. They basically enter a meditative trance and get the equivalent of 8 hours sleep for 4 hours of meditation. But, I am not sure if that is canon or not. If it is so it would explain much of Legolas' endurance in the books and movies.


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geekdad
Posted: Oct 29 2012, 04:11 AM
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A lot of things like this, such as Legolas walking "on top of" deep snow, leaving no indentation, I would put down to the exaggerated way in which sagas and legends are told. Tolkien wanted to replicate the sagas and epic poems of old, and wrote his stories in the same exaggerated style. You can take them as written, or assume that they are exaggerations to demonstrate that elves are very nimble and hardy travellers. A bonus, like taking fatigue tests less frequently, and recovering more quickly, is the way I'd go.


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frodolives
Posted: Oct 29 2012, 07:53 AM
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Putting aside the rules for a moment, here is the type of thing I'm looking for:

The History of Middle-earth X: Morgoth's Ring - Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth: The Debate of Finrod and Andreth - Commentary: Note 5

"They [Elves] were thus capable of far greater and longer physical exertions (in pursuit of some dominant purpose of their minds) without weariness; they were not subject to diseases; they healed rapidly and completely after injuries that would have proved fatal to Men; and they could endure great physical pain for long periods. Their bodies could not, however, survive vital injuries, or violent assualts upon their structure; nor replace missing members (such as a hand hewn off)."

Granted, you could say this isn't official canon.
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Arthadan_
Posted: Oct 30 2012, 03:02 AM
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I think that quote goes only for the Noldor who had lived in Aman.
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Cleggster
Posted: Oct 31 2012, 06:02 PM
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Actualy, this brings up a spirited discussion I had with a player. Elves in ME seem to be just "better". But a lot of that really supernatural seeming looks to be more towards the Noldor. The woodland elves in the Hobbit didn't give that same impression the others did in LOTR. Legolas excepting. But we could attribute his skills to being high level, as it were. But just how "better" are elves woodland elves in general? Is everything they touch just made SUPER? These elves seem much more grounded then the others, if that makes sense.

As for fatigue, there is a wood elf virtue that lets you recover Endurance equal to your Wisdom for free at the end of each day. That is in addition to any rest. It was called something like Elvish Dreams or something. I remember since one of my players had that virtue. That combined with the elven ability to always use favored attributes in many situations makes them hell on wheels.
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Arthadan_
Posted: Oct 31 2012, 06:54 PM
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For Men, the closer they are to "holyness/favoured by the Valar", the more powerful they become in all aspects. We have the Númenoreans, taller, stronger, long-lived, wise (before they were corrupted by Sauron) and able to forge magical weapons (i.e. Westernesse blades).

The same rule applies for Elves, the closer they are to the Powers, the more powerful they become. So, we have Glorfindel who died, went to the Halls of Mandos in Aman and asked to return to Middle-earth to help fighting the Shadow, we have Galadriel who was born in Aman, etc. Then the scale of power would be determined by lineage (if your parents are favoured by the Valar, so you will be). We have the Noldor born in Aman, then the Noldor born in Middle-earth, the Sindar and then the Nandor and Avari.

Note that the natural right to rule also comes from "holyness/power". So the Silvan Elves accepted to be ruled by Sindar in Greenwood and the Sindar of Lórien accepted to be ruled by Noldor (and following the similarities with Men, the rightful King of Gondor is a pure-blooded Dúnedain).

Just to step away from the racist argument, is not that same races are better than others (the world is saved by a tiny Hobbit!), but the closer you are to the will of the only true God (Eru), the more gifted you become. That's a great simplification, but I think you can get my point.

Now, we use to take Legolas as an example of Elven capabilities. But he is no common Elf:

QUOTE
"He was tall as a young tree, lithe, immensely strong, able swiftly to draw a great war-bow and shoot down a Nazgûl, endowed with the tremendous vitality of Elvish bodies, so hard and resistant to hurt that he went only in light shoes over rock or through snow, the most tireless of all the Fellowship."
    ― The Book of Lost Tales Part Two


I think this suggests he was sent to Rivendell by Thranduil not only because he was his son, but also because he was a great warrior in his own right.
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LOTR_Nerd
Posted: Oct 31 2012, 08:59 PM
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I would not allow elves to pass all fatigue tests for the simple reason that these are silvan or sindar elves not the mighty Noldor elves.Also traveling in the wild with everything you need to survive is hugely different from marching to war,in the first instance you are carrying food,blanket,weapons,armor and can be moving at a quick pace.In the second instane you may only be carrying blanket,weapons and armor,also you could be moving at a slower pace.
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Garn
Posted: Oct 31 2012, 09:13 PM
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The other potential problem with Legolas is that we're not aware of his exact age. Nor do we have a date of birth, or marriage, for his parents upon which we could try and derive a DOB for Legolas.

So Legolas' age could be almost anything. Anecdotal evidence suggests he is at least a couple millenia in age. Anything that lives that long gains a certain amount of wisdom and power.

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/l/legolas.html (see footnote #2)


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frodolives
Posted: Oct 31 2012, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (LOTR_Nerd @ Nov 1 2012, 12:59 AM)
I would not allow elves to pass all fatigue tests for the simple reason that these are silvan or sindar elves not the mighty Noldor elves.Also traveling in the wild with everything you need to survive is hugely different from marching to war,in the first instance you are carrying food,blanket,weapons,armor and can be moving at a quick pace.In the second instane you may only be carrying blanket,weapons and armor,also you could be moving at a slower pace.

I'm basing most of my thoughts on Legolas' part in the Three Hunters, where he ran for incredibly long periods of time and suffered no fatigue whatsoever, while Gimli and Aragorn were worn out.
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LOTR_Nerd
Posted: Oct 31 2012, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE (frodolives @ Nov 1 2012, 01:21 AM)
QUOTE (LOTR_Nerd @ Nov 1 2012, 12:59 AM)
I would not allow elves to pass all fatigue tests for the simple reason that these are silvan or sindar elves not the mighty Noldor elves.Also traveling in the wild with everything you need to survive is hugely different from marching to war,in the first instance you are carrying food,blanket,weapons,armor and can be moving at a quick pace.In the second instane you may only be carrying blanket,weapons and armor,also you could be moving at a slower pace.

I'm basing most of my thoughts on Legolas' part in the Three Hunters, where he ran for incredibly long periods of time and suffered no fatigue whatsoever, while Gimli and Aragorn were worn out.

You also have to remember that event in the books is an oddity in that they are trying to catch up to the orcs before the orcs make it to Isengard.This is shown by even Aragorn telling Eomer that the way they are hunting the orcs is not the way ARagorn would do it if he had a choice.
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