Would you allow:

• Gaining standing from deeds rather than treasure?
• Gaining standing with other groups?

Bard becomes king by shooting Smaug. Surely that's basically a massive boost in Standing.

In The Hobbit, Bilbo is granted the title of elf friend for giving treasure to Thranduil at the end. Could this be seen as "Standing (Elves) 1" or some such.

In fact, you could even say Bilbo got Standing (Elves) 1 for handing over the arkenstone (and saving a lot of bloodshed), and Standing (Elves) 2 for the extra treasure... and at 2 you become an "friend".

I have in mind some kind of house rule where your adventures grant "Deeds" which are just like Treasure but can only be used to gain standing (and have no fatigue penalty).

Having to buy your standing with hard cash seems a little unheroic to me.

vs

I don't see it as buying the standing. More, it's representing the spend of treasure in terms of gifts and maintaining an appearance of wealth. After all, kings and lords don't listen to the penniless peasant at the door. They might give charity in the form of a meal, but they wouldn't necessarily listen to their counsel. In order to get in to the graces of the leaders of a culture takes money. It's indirect spend, not direct bribe. In feudal society, a good lord was meant to be wealthy and generous with his wealth.

It doesn't seem out of line for someone to gain standing in his society through good/noteworthy deeds. After all someone who has gained high military honors is usually shown more favour than an ordinary person, and most people probably know who Neil Armstrong is, I'd hazard a guess because he was the first human to set foot on an extraterrestrial body (quite a noteworthy deed). I'm not saying the 'gifts for gain' method shouldn't also work, but having a system that rewards heroism as well is understandable. The issue that hampers the deeds system is getting the word out and being believed by the public that the deeds are your own. In the case of Neil Armstrong if the lunar landing hadn't been televised who would know? Along the same lines, Bard's heroic deed was clearly associated to him and known widely amongst his folk allowing his standing to rise. What if he had slain a cold drake out on the Withered Heath with no witness, and was unable to bring back proof? If he had gone around Esgaroth proclaiming his deed most if not all would have scoffed and laughed at him in disbelief. In comparison the gifts that a player bestows upon those in power if given directly to those that 'count' immediately and physically convey that this guy has 'the juice'. Unfortunately like in our own world, Middle Earth movers and shakers like to have their palms greased by those that petition them.

Again, it may not necessarily be gifts that a player bestows upon those in power. It could be money that a character spends doing good for the community, which raises his standing among those in power. Examples of this are patrons of the arts in medieval Italy (e.g. Medici family) or the religious dissenting families that built communities and funded schools (e.g. George & Richard Cadbury, Joseph Priestley, Jane and Caroline Badland).

Another way would be to give back a lord's gift straight away, earning Standing. For example, the lord gifts you an amount of treasure in gratitude for service given in a battle, protecting the community. You immediately refuse the gift, saying that it was your duty to do so. Your standing with the lord increases as a result, according to the size of the gift refused. perhaps add in a Courtesy roll to ensure that the lord doesn't take offence at your refusal

Duly noted, but note that I said "gifts" and not expressly "money". In my community a donor made a gift of a building to the local college providing a place for the science department to locate. A wealthy individual donated a wing at the local hospital, and a business provided backpacks for all the kids at a school in a lower income neighborhood. All these are the types of things I believe you are referencing Valarian. However, I'm sure that direct material gifts to powerful individuals would gain you standing as well since that would also make you noteworthy to those in positions of power.

Aye, that sort of thing - and I agree that the gifts directly to a lord would definitely influence your Standing.

Maybe one thing to keep in mind specific to TOR, Valour and Wisdom captures a player-heroes regard amongst the Powerful and Wise (cf. AB 117). Standing seems to deal more with a player-heroes relationship to the common, everyday folk of his or hers culture. In this case, the use of wealth as opposed to deeds makes a great deal of sense. Heroic deeds only feed tales in the local tavern. But, these same deeds of Valous and Wisdom don't fill bellies or bring trade into an otherwise struggling economy. Tolkien evokes this precise dynamic in The Hobbit with Bilbo and the Dwarves stay in Lake-town. The fanfare was great at the arrival of the King Under the Mountain. But, entually, people started to wonder when the gold would flow so to speak. The Wise and Powerful understood the greatness of the undtaking. However, in the end, to the average person it was measured in the impact on his or hers life. For those of us who live on the US-side of the pond, this is precisely the public discourse ongoing in America's politics. Promises and deeds are great, but where's the prosperity and quality of life improvement (please forgive in advance the political analogy).

Again, Tolkien brings this out in the lead up to the Battle of the Five Armies. Bilbo's heroic deed of pilfering the Arkenstone and giving it freely to Bard and Thranduil was greatly esteemed by the Powerful and Wise (I.e., Gandalf, Bard, Thranduil). Back in Hobbiton, this was of little consequence. Or, Thranduil's succor of the Lake-men after Smaug's defeat, I.e., his largesse. That's what the commoners remember and take to heart.

So, in TOR there seems to be three qualities that capture a character's place in the world: Valour and Wisdom amongst the elite, and more broadly speaking Standing.

More importantly, the designers may have been attempting to capture a very specific quality in Tolkien's narrative style. Standing is the mechanic that achieves this. As the rule stands, it is very much in the spirit of Tolkien. Now this is not to say that it can't be expanded upon to capture a greater meaning than Tolkien may have envisioned. But I might suggest that whatever the house rule, it doesn't take away from the function of Valour and Renown as one's "standing" when dealing with people like Bard or Thranduil.

Just a thought or two in the pre-dawn dark prior to the morning's tea and scone. Which could lead to all sorts of uncomfortable adventures if one is not careful!