Powered by Invision Power Board


  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> Stats For Nazgul
Cavallo
Posted: Sep 14 2011, 07:17 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 6
Member No.: 1914
Joined: 12-September 11



For my next session I might need stats for Nazgul. I hope our heroes try to avoid direct confrontation but I would rather be prepared. Can any of you have a look at what I did with ringwraiths in ToR? Feel free to comment and fix whatever need to be fixed. I'm quite new to the game and my version might be just plain silly.

Attribute level 8
Endurance: 60
Hate: 10
Parry: 6
Armour: 3d

Personality 4
Movement 2
Perception 4
Survival 1
Custom 1
Vocation 3

Swords 4

Strike Fear, Thing of Terror, Hideous Toughness, Hate Sunlight, Fear of Fire and Water, Commanding Voice; also Wraithform

Wraithform:
• if Nazgul don’t wear robes or armour is almost invisible; heroes need to pass test of Awareness to spot him
• You can’t kill Nazgul as long as the One Ring exist; defeated ringwraith will recover his Endurance with double speed
• Nazgul has -2 to all rolls during day; -4 to all rolls when in direct sunlight

I'm thinking about customizing my Nazgul giving him various Dreadful Spells as well.

What do you think? To weak, to strong? Anything is not covered? Oh, btw, I'm thinking of giving him Called Shot with sword causing "poison", similar to one orcs have but maybe harder to heal.
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Skywalker
Posted: Sep 14 2011, 11:41 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 800
Member No.: 46
Joined: 24-September 07



Nazgul would seem to me to be at least Attribute 9 or 10.

A lot of the stats seems on the low side for a Nazgul. Parry and Endurance seem especially low.


--------------------
“There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something. ... You certainly usually find something if you look, but it is not always quite the something you were after."
- Thorin Oakenshield

Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Alric
Posted: Sep 15 2011, 12:11 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 20
Member No.: 1760
Joined: 6-August 11



The Nazgul are verging on the level of "Plot Point". I would personally hesitate to give them stats at all. Given the power levels of the game PCs shouldn't be able to destroy a Nazgul and shouldn't have much chance against one in a stand up fight.

The Nazguls are threats to be avoided and hidden from.

Speaking of Nazgul, are you familiar with ICE's take on them? I liked that they made one of the nine to be female.
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Skywalker
Posted: Sep 15 2011, 01:14 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 800
Member No.: 46
Joined: 24-September 07



QUOTE (Alric @ Sep 15 2011, 04:11 AM)
I liked that they made one of the nine to be female.

A Nazgirl?


--------------------
“There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something. ... You certainly usually find something if you look, but it is not always quite the something you were after."
- Thorin Oakenshield

Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Alric
Posted: Sep 15 2011, 01:28 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 20
Member No.: 1760
Joined: 6-August 11



QUOTE (Skywalker @ Sep 15 2011, 05:14 AM)
A Nazgirl?

A Nazgoil (to rhyme with coil).

Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Cavallo
Posted: Sep 15 2011, 04:19 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 6
Member No.: 1914
Joined: 12-September 11



Using him as a plot point was my intention from the start but you never know with players. But you're right, I should boost some of his stats. I also would like to see heroes fight with him at some point in the future so I would rather see him as a "boss" battle near the end of campaing. So parry need to go up in the first place to make him impossible to kill by begining characters. And Endurance up to maybe 80 or even 100 might be good idea. Attribute level could be 9.
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Francesco
Posted: Sep 15 2011, 05:02 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Playtesters
Posts: 256
Member No.: 864
Joined: 22-January 10



An interesting thing to consider with the Nazgul is how powerful they are at the time of our default campaign - TA 2946 - and how do they look. In his letters Tolkien explained the difference between the perceived threat posed by the Nazgul at the time of their 'Quest for the Ring' in the Shire and later during the War of the Ring. The Witch-king in particular is said to have been 'raised to a new demonic stature' when he enters the fray at the Pelennor on his winged mount, but the same could be considered for all the Ringwraiths.
In any case, several features are evident: the Nazgul are more powerful when it is dark, they are more powerful together - especially at the presence of their leader, and their capabilities seem to grow with the increase of the power in Mordor. This various elements are useful to explain the modus operandi of the Ringwraiths in Bree and their performance against Strider at Weathertop.

Considering all this, I wouldn't see it a bad idea to have a sort of less powered manifestation of the Ringwraiths going about at the time of our game - more 'incorporeal', and relying much more on fear than anything else.

Francesco
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Rapscallion
Posted: Sep 15 2011, 05:08 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 37
Member No.: 1764
Joined: 6-August 11



I don't find this inappropriate, and was wondering about their lack of entry in the adversary section myself, seeing as Khamul was placed in charge of Dol Guldur around this part of the Third Age.

The Nine are quite potent, but I wouldn't place them in the realm of being totally impossible for a man to best in battle (except The Witch King, of course) provided the brave (foolish?) soul possesses an enchanted/powerful weapon (such as one obtained through a Cultural Reward), plenty of fire, lots of mettle, and luck.

The Nazguls' physical form can be stricken down, but they will reform (this is, in effect, one of their most powerful abilities besides fear), for which I see you've already accounted. I was under the impression though that when they were defeated, the Nazgul reformed at a Shadow where Sauron held power (ie. Angmar, Mordor, Dol Guldur, etc.), much in the same way as their Master, himself does when physically defeated. I could be mistaken though.

For a little perspective, you can turn to the words of the Professor, himself. The fear they inspired was The Nine's chief danger: "They have no great physical power against the fearless," he wrote, "but what they have, and the fear that they inspire, is enormously increased in darkness" (Letters, 210)

One trait you're definitely missing is the Nazgul's Black Breath. This would be the most terrifying power coming from a player perspective, as it had a lingering effect that could cause almost any victory over The Nine to be Pyrrhic at best.

Also, watch out for that Morgul blade! It's a nice tool the Nazgul use to recruit would-be heroes into the ranks of the Dark Lord.

In my opinion, one of the fastest ways to retire a character would be to fight a Nazgul. This may prove interesting, as this character could serve as an example to generations(and player-heroes)-to-come why you don't tussle with a Ringwraith. They are definitely the nine most dangerous tools Sauron has available, and they should be portrayed as such.

I'd also ask for Shadow-Lore trait checks to determine Nazgul vulnerabilities, as few engage them and live to tell the tale.


--------------------
Ash nazg durbatulūk...
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Tolwen
Posted: Sep 15 2011, 01:52 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 430
Member No.: 862
Joined: 21-January 10



QUOTE (Francesco @ Sep 15 2011, 09:02 AM)
An interesting thing to consider with the Nazgul is how powerful they are at the time of our default campaign - TA 2946 - and how do they look. In his letters Tolkien explained the difference between the perceived threat posed by the Nazgul at the time of their 'Quest for the Ring' in the Shire and later during the War of the Ring. [snip]

Francesco is definitely right IMO. The strength and abilities of the Nazgūl (as far as they can be represented by game mechanics) are variable. The best approach would be to define their *maximum* abilities (e.g. under optimal conditions for them) and then judge their penalties under various different conditions and timeframes (e.g. the default TOR campaign time Francesco mentioned).

The following parameters are IMO important in judging a Nazgūl's strength:
  • Possession of their own Ring (e.g. one of the Nine)
  • Sauron possessing the One or not
  • Time of the day (they are much more powerful in the dark)
  • Is the Nazgūl alone or do they act in concert (especially the presence of the Witch-king as leader)?
  • Physical distance to Sauron (very important if Sauron does not have the One, otherwise probably much less important)
  • Is the land they are operating in already under the Shadow (e.g. they are weaker in 'free' Eriador compared to eastern Rhūn)
  • Is Sauron's focus upon him (e.g. as he did with the Witch-king before Minas Tirith)
  • The power of Sauron: the weaker their master is, the weaker they are as well
It might be an idea to define a percentage or fixed value for each of these points to be subtracted from their maximum power level to get an imagination of their power in a given situation.

Concerning their performance on Weathertop it is very likely not a defeat brought upon them by Aragorn (without diminishing his power, but that would be far beyond his abilities), but that they accomplished their mission (wounding the Ringbearer with the Morgul blade) and just to make sure he wouldn't escape them before becoming a wraith. This is IMO the main reason they did not press home their attack.

Best
Tolwen


--------------------
Visit Other Minds - a free international journal devoted to roleplaying and scholarly interests in J.R.R. Tolkien's works

Other Minds now has a new group in Facebook. Come and join there!
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
daddystabz
  Posted: Sep 15 2011, 02:54 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 109
Member No.: 1281
Joined: 5-October 10



Nazgul.....bah! All you need for those wimps is Aragorn with a torch!

And as to the term "nazgirl" I think it describes my ex-girlfriend perfectly.
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Arandil
Posted: Sep 18 2011, 08:46 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 42
Member No.: 1739
Joined: 3-August 11



Good observatons here. Keep in mind that the 'physical form' of a Nazgul is really just a spell. When attacking a Nazgul's 'form' you're really attacking this spell. Fire is the most effective weapon vs this spell. Mundane weapons would have little effect, on their own. Weapons enchanted as a bane to fell spirits, like the Nazgul, are better.
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Throrsgold
Posted: Nov 16 2011, 05:14 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 295
Member No.: 2128
Joined: 9-November 11



QUOTE (Cavallo @ Sep 14 2011, 11:17 PM)
For my next session I might need stats for Nazgul. I hope our heroes try to avoid direct confrontation but I would rather be prepared. Can any of you have a look at what I did with ringwraiths in ToR? Feel free to comment and fix whatever need to be fixed. I'm quite new to the game and my version might be just plain silly.

Attribute level 8
Endurance: 60
Hate: 10
Parry: 6
Armour: 3d

Personality 4
Movement 2
Perception 4
Survival 1
Custom 1
Vocation 3

Swords 4

Strike Fear, Thing of Terror, Hideous Toughness, Hate Sunlight, Fear of Fire and Water, Commanding Voice; also Wraithform

Wraithform:
• if Nazgul don’t wear robes or armour is almost invisible; heroes need to pass test of Awareness to spot him
• You can’t kill Nazgul as long as the One Ring exist; defeated ringwraith will recover his Endurance with double speed
• Nazgul has -2 to all rolls during day; -4 to all rolls  when in direct sunlight

I'm thinking about customizing my Nazgul giving him various Dreadful Spells as well.

What do you think? To weak, to strong? Anything is not covered? Oh, btw, I'm thinking of giving him Called Shot with sword causing "poison", similar to one orcs have but maybe harder to heal.

Thinking that I might need an appearance of a Nazgūl, I relished seeing this thread. After reading it, I find myself wondering ... how did it go?

Too, referencing the Strike Fear and Thing of Terror Special Abilities, what TN did you use, Cavallo? I find the default 14 to be too low, regardless of time periods in the Third Age. I'd probably go with an 18 for the default TOR time period and a 20 during the War of the Ring. Of course, I could be convinced to back off by 2 in each with the appropriate reasoning ... but not lower.

Also, did you give your Nazgūl Dreadful Spells as mentioned? If so, what did you decide to use? I'd suggest some sort of Weaponbane (nonmagical weapons striking
a Nazgūl automatically shatter and/or break), some sort of a Freezing Touch (touching or being touched causes some sort of damage), and something to emulate the dreaded Black Breath (a cloud of noxious, evil mist that causes victims to become nauseated and fall into an unbreakable slumber for a number of days ... they can only be awakened by something to break enchantments or more powerful magic or, of course, athelas administered by an ordained lord).

Regarding the Called Shot with Sword, did you go with the poison? To what end?

A suggestion ... a Dagger Called Shot to emulate a Morgul Blade. I don't know how I'd stat it, but it should work like this ... on a Called Shot the Morgul Blade breaks, and a sliver of it stays in the wound, moving slowly and inexorably toward the victim's heart. The victim is sickened and falls into feverish unconsciousness which lasts until successfully treated. Each day, the victim needs to make some sort of a check or lose a Body? When Body gets to 0, the victim dies, and rises as a wraith enslaved to the Shadow a number of days later. Treating the taint of a Morgul Blade should require some hefty healing, too.


--------------------
My TOR Resources:
| Using Your Own Dice | Names of Middle-earth | New Adversaries v1.0 |

--------------------
President/Owner of Bardic Tales, Inc.

LotRO Contact Info
Server: Elendilmir
Kinship: Cuivet Pelin Annun
Character(s): Alcaril, Isenhewer, Necry and Toland
Mini ProfilePMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Mim
Posted: Nov 16 2011, 06:51 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 372
Member No.: 2116
Joined: 7-November 11



I suspect that Cubicle 7 will include a Nazgūl, perhaps Khamūl the Easterling, in Tales from Wilderland, for the very reason that Rapscallion so aptly states (hint, hint, Cubicle 7 tongue.gif ).

On the flip side, however, they may not be able to identify him by name because it falls outside their license - Unifinished Tales, etc.

Concerning the other posts about compiling stats for the Nazgūl, I also hesitate for the same reasons - they should be all nigh invincible for heroes, no matter how high your heroes rise. We need to remember canon & game balance, & if your heroes can defeat a Ringwraith, you'll wreak havoc with the books.

That said, however, your PCs can always somehow flee from one or drive it off, though it's still a bit of a push IMHO.

That said, I like your write-up Throrsgold & you've done a great job, except for the Morgul-knife. Are you planning on having any of your nine nasties wield them, or just the Witch-king himself?
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Throrsgold
Posted: Nov 16 2011, 07:22 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 295
Member No.: 2128
Joined: 9-November 11



QUOTE (Mim @ Nov 16 2011, 10:51 PM)
Concerning the other posts about compiling stats for the Nazgūl, I also hesitate for the same reasons - they should be all nigh invincible for heroes, no matter how high your heroes rise. We need to remember canon & game balance, & if your heroes can defeat a Ringwraith, you'll wreak havoc with the books.

That said, however, your PCs can always somehow flee from one or drive it off, though it's still a bit of a push IMHO.

That said, I like your write-up Throrsgold & you've done a great job, except for the Morgul-knife. Are you planning on having any of your nine nasties wield them, or just the Witch-king himself?

My use of a Nazgūl would be because one might be hunting the group for what they are carrying (I am basing my campaign on “The Fellowship of the Spear” by Ken Walton in Hall of Fire #22 ... found at http://halloffire.org/wp-content/uploads/2...07/Issue-22.pdf ). At one point, the possibility exists that they could encounter a Nazgūl (i.e., the text reads ... "While camping in the ruins of Tharbad, they are first stalked by a Nazgūl. If they confront it openly, they may be in serious trouble. To save them if they can’t escape, send in a party of wandering Noldor or possibly Gandalf.").

Now, I am fully aware that the player-heroes will NOT be able to cope with an actual Nazgūl confrontation. I fully intend to send in a party of wandering Noldor or possibly Gandalf to save them IF they're so foolish to do anything but stealthily flee ... eluding pursuit by virtue of crossing some running water and making it to Moria's West Gate before ever SEEING the Nazgūl. BUT, I would rather have the stats and not need them than need them and not have them.

Regarding the Morgul Blade, it is my impression that each Nazgūl carries such a blade. I just hope never to use it on the player-heroes. Based on the name, though, I could envision it only being wielded by the Witch-king, too. I invite further commentary.


--------------------
My TOR Resources:
| Using Your Own Dice | Names of Middle-earth | New Adversaries v1.0 |

--------------------
President/Owner of Bardic Tales, Inc.

LotRO Contact Info
Server: Elendilmir
Kinship: Cuivet Pelin Annun
Character(s): Alcaril, Isenhewer, Necry and Toland
Mini ProfilePMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Stormcrow
Posted: Nov 17 2011, 02:58 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 137
Member No.: 2108
Joined: 4-November 11



QUOTE (Cavallo @ Sep 14 2011, 11:17 PM)
A suggestion ... a Dagger Called Shot to emulate a Morgul Blade.  I don't know how I'd stat it, but it should work like this ... on a Called Shot the Morgul Blade breaks, and a sliver of it stays in the wound, moving slowly and inexorably toward the victim's heart.


The Witch-king was trying to stab Frodo in the heart. If he had succeeded, Frodo would have become a wraith immediately. But because Frodo resisted him, and fought back, the blade only struck Frodo's shoulder, and the sliver had to work its way inward. And everyone who understood such things were surprised at how long it took before Frodo succumbed.

In other words, the effect it had on Frodo was unusual. It's supposed to have an immediate effect, or a swift one. It's not supposed to take two weeks to make the victim into a wraith.

Clearly this blade wasn't unique to the Witch-king, as Aragorn, Glorfindel, and Elrond were all familiar with their effects.
Mini ProfilePMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Mim
Posted: Nov 17 2011, 09:05 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 372
Member No.: 2116
Joined: 7-November 11



Throrsgold, Stormcrow,

You've answered my question concerning the use of the Morgul-knife. I've often wondered about providing them to all of the Nazgūl, & you raise a valid point about the familiarity of Aragorn, Glorfindel, & Elrond. Now that you've eased my hesitation, I'll provide the blades (plural now!) to the heavies...

Throrsgold, you have a good story worked out here, & I think your players will have fun having their hearts stop when they realize what they're up against biggrin.gif.
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
1 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
1 Members: Garn

Topic Options Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 


Google
 
Web cubicle7.clicdev.com


[ Script Execution time: 14.1455 ]   [ 15 queries used ]   [ GZIP Enabled ]   [ Server Load: 15.27 ]

Web Statistics