Hi all,

This came up from one of my players. He felt that the craft skill was woefully underrepresented in the course of the chronicle. It shows up importantly in the Fellowship Phase, but I guess I just wasn't taking full stock of my player's abilities.

I came up with this little house rule that I thought I'd share. its a little tweak to the craft skill during the adventuring phase. It usually occurs during the downtime that occurs after combat, when the players take time for healing, but before the fellowship proceeds again on its journey. I don't think its too OP, but I would like people's take on it.

The Care and Keeping of Weapons TN14
This application of the craft skill may only be performed ONCE on a weapon between combat. If the skill roll fails, they may not reroll until the conclusion of the next combat. If successful, the crafter has improved the weapon's sharpness, heft, balance, etc. The exact description of this temporary upgrade is up to imagination of the player.
A crafter is limited to a number of weapons = the craft skill of the character between combats. A dwarf may perform this skill = ranks in craft + his basic heart score.

Success = Add +1 to the next roll using that weapon. The bonus is then lost.
Great Success = Gain 1 additional Battle Dice (d6) for that weapon at the start of combat. This dice may only be used for one attack roll with that specific weapon.
Extraordinary Success = Add +1 to all rolls using that weapon for the duration of the next combat. When combat concludes, the bonus is lost.

The funny thing is, once i had this written down, it jumped out at me how this little system could explain the gaining of reward weapons. So they're you go. Comments and suggestions as usual

My first thought is maybe the bonus should be to damage rather than to the chance to hit.

I can see a well kept weapon keeping a keener edge, or sharper point etc, rather than improving handling, balance etc.

Good idea though.

That was also my first thought. And I agree, I like the idea.

One of the things I like about TOR is that it has few and simple rules. I am concerned that introducing rules such as these adds IMO unnecessary complexity- I would prefer to make an Adhoc ruling for these sorts of cases, as players are always trying to circumvent the rules.

Which leads to my other concern - this may lessen the value of actual Reward weapons -players may think they don't need to spend the required XP or fellowship phases if they can do this.

If a player asked this in my game, I would point out that for game balance I would also need to introduce rules for when they didn't take care of their weapons, or used poor quality weapons etc.


Robin S.

That's a fair point Robin.

I suppose you could argue that any one who actually has a sword or bow (and the skill to use it) would certainly know how to look after their weapon, and this is reflected in the actual weapon skill.

hmmm.

Interesting idea. My only concern is with the bonus to the weapon. I would think that with this rule in place the weapon would function properly with a sucessful roll, and if the weapon was not kept properly or if the roll failed there would be negative modifier placed on the weapon. Proper upkeep on sword, for example, can only go so far, it isn't going to make the weapon "special".

That's true. Didn't think of that angle. However, Kaltharion's idea might be a good Undertaking during a Fellowship phase if the Loremaster keeps to the RAW and only allows one Undertaking per companion. It may need a new name if used in this way and could be viewed as a lesser kind of Reward. I'm imagining a Dwarf spending an entire winter sharpening and strengthening his Axe. This kind of activity and attention is above and beyond normal care for weapons, but not to the level of a permanent benefit.

All good points...

Robin - I definitely see the concern for rewards becoming irrelevant. However, this will never replace a reward weapon in terms of reliability. It may help, it may not. Of course, as the character gets better in crafting, this might become a concern.

That's the one thing about this game (other than no magic system ) that has somewhat rubbed me the wrong way, the rewards and virtues system. Its elegant, don't get me wrong, I just feel its extremely limited. But that's just me.

well... back to the drawing board

I guess the simplest solution is to provide my players with more opportunities to use their skills (most of the situations in my games are encounters with combat sprinkled in for flavor).

just as a sidenote, if we wanted to change this to damage, change the success and extraordinary success to bonus damage and the great success gets a +1 damage bonus for turns = the craft skill of the player using it.

edit: JRB - that's a great idea. I will definitely chuck that into my idea bin. My only concern is Craft remains primarily a fellowship phase skill and this whole exercise was to bring it to more prominence in the adventuring phase.

Actually,

I think the Craft skill should see a LOT of use during an adventure. Craft is used for more than sharpening or repairing weapons. As far as I can remember, the AB even mentions using the Craft skill to determine:

-whether the pc can build a fire (in adverse conditions preferably, otherwise why make a roll at all?)
-whether the pc can pick a lock
Other ideas include
-whether the pc can build a trap for an animal
-whether you can secure a rope around a tree or object to make it safe to climb down
etc.

Any kind of skill requiring dexterity, physical prowess or skill, etc. that isn't a full body motion (ie Athletics) should basically fall under Craft.

However, perhaps your player was imagining Craft as the term is more properly (or narrowly) defined, and imagined it was related to weapons. In that case, it really does make sense to leave that to the fellowship phase. No adventurer is going to be busy sharpening his sword in the middle of Mirkwood when he's supposed to be guiding, marching, setting up camp, on patrol or lookout, hunting, etc. When you're traveling from A to B as efficiently as possible, there isn't time to do real 'Craft' that could actually improve a weapon.

(these are just my initial thoughts, feel free to take or leave!)

Good suggestions, but what about traits?

They can cover several of the situations you mention. I don't know, it feels like craft is not utilized as well as it could be.

edit: I removed my earlier response as it sounded too damn snarky... sorry about that.

That is the purpose of advancement points.

Example: let's say the company has made camp for the night and it is cold and raining (say they rolled a Travel hazard previously), and the wind is so fierce and the night so cold, it will be hard for anyone to get warm, much less sleep.

Well, if one of the pcs has the trait 'Firemaking' you could allow them to simply invoke that trait, and build a fire. The consequences of failure are not large in the grand scheme of the journey (perhaps the loss of some endurance), but this pc has clear ability and practice at making fires and could get an auto success.

However, if this same pc had some ranks in Craft they could opt to roll to build the fire, rather than take their auto success. If they succeed on the roll, they can then invoke their trait to gain an advancement point.

You could do the same thing with burglary + Craft, or any other trait that fits well with Craft, so that players can gain advancement points.

Craft as understood to mean 'the dexterity/nimbleness/skillfulness of the pc in using their hands for various tasks, and projects,' has a very wide application in TOR.
Craft as understood to mean 'the ability of a pc in building, repairing, or honing a blade/weapon' does have the narrow game mechanic of only appearing in the fellowship phase, and even in that case, it's to help reduce Shadow (rather than being mechanically tied to a weapon). If this is what you are referring to as Craft, then you are correct, it doesn't have a lot of applications in TOR. Rewards seem to cover that.

In that case, I suppose you could try to create some more ways a player could make use of the skill, but it might be better suited with story (and more intrinsic rewards like the favor of some important figure when they see the skilled work of said pc) rather than with some extra mechanic.

Or, a pc could spend a fellowship phase working on a blade and with a Craft skill give their weapon some kind of short-term bonus. But I really don't see how a pc can really 'work' on a weapon while they are in the middle of a journey. Sure, they could clean a blade or un-string their bow, but seems to be part of proper care of a weapon to ensure it does its job, not some kind of improvement.

I have always thought the skills are too few and too generic. It should be Craft (insert profession). I know it was only used as an example, but how did you come up with Craft to build a fire?

I have always thought that the whole use of he qualities was to take some of the slack off the lack of proper skills (ie firemaking).

"whether the pc can build a fire (in adverse conditions preferably, otherwise why make a roll at all?)"

Why have a Fire-making quality then?

"-whether the pc can pick a lock"

Or, Burglary?


"Other ideas include
-whether the pc can build a trap for an animal"

this would be under the Hunting Skill.

"-whether you can secure a rope around a tree or object to make it safe to climb down."

I'll give you this one, partially; knot work could be a craft.

I think Blubbo (nice name by the way) has the right of it. Craft should cover any kind of task where a person is skilled with their hands.

I was thinking about it last night Craft could cover all sorts of things, including cooking. Not sure when cooking would be a vitally task but there could be a situation where cooking a good meal might be important. (which led me to think back to the heroic fishing thread )

I did think of a rule for Care of Weapons but I also agree that its hard to imagine someone spending so much time looking after their gear (it borders on OCD).

Any ho heres what I came up with.

A Companion can use his Fellowship undertaking to care for his weapon.
A Companion can forgo taking a travel role to take care of his weapons whilst in the travel phase. He can spend a point of hope to fill a role as normal.

He may make a Craft TN 14 roll to care for his weapon.

Failure = Fellowship Undertaking - he spends long hours lovingly maintaining his weapon, but gains no bonus. Whilst Travelling - He spends far too much time obsessing over his weapon, or has packed way too much maintenance equipment and must temporarily increase his fatigue score by 1.

Success = He may count his damage as 1 higher for the first strike (that hits) he makes in the next combat.

Great Success = As above but he also count his edge as 1 higher (until he scores a piercing blow).

Extraordinary Success = As above but he also count his weapon's injury rating as 2 higher (until he scores a piercing blow).

So the player does get a benefit but it is rather minor. I seems more of a character quirk than an unbalancing, game breaking rule.

What do you think?

"Not sure when cooking would be a vitally task but there could be a situation where cooking a good meal might be important. "

When you are stuck out in the rain and cold wind, far from home a hot meal can be just as important to morale as a warm fire.

I like your idea for the care of weapons...up to where the successes start. Proper field care of a Sword (or any other weapon) isn't going to make it a better weapon, it simply will keep it in a state that it will function as it should. What about armour? Are you going to apply the same mechanic since it needs to be looked after as well (ie cleaned and oiled regularly). This is just adding a level of complexity to the game that isn't needed.

Also, certain types of food may be inedible or worse, if not prepared properly. Chicken springs to mind instantly.

Though cooking isn't really a skill you would be testing under duress; unless you find the ME equivalent of Gordon Ramsay.

Craft is the only skill that seems to fit when doing all kinds of things (like building a fire, building a raft, repairing a boat, etc.). The problem with the skills is the words used - Craft typically denotes some kind of trade (at least in Middle Earth) tied to the making of weapons, armor, or some other (Noldorian, Dwarven) skill. However, in TOR, since they don't have an overabundance of skills (thankfully to keep things simple!), that means the word 'Craft' is actually too specific to mean all it could be used or intended for by the game designers. Yet, they chose to use the word Craft (and Song, and Lore, etc), to stay as close to the language of the world as possible.

As an aside, that is something I greatly appreciate about this game - it respects the Original Works not only in how it plays, but in the very language used. Personally, I think Tolkien himself would be proud of such a game, though I don't know if he would have played it.

Traits, like firemaking, do take some slack off skills and help add nuances that the generic skill words cannot show. So all characters with the calling 'Treasure-Hunter' have some ability in Burglary, but if they haven't practiced that ability (or don't practice it during game play), then they won't have anything better than basic know-how and abilities in it. What other skill besides Craft could you tie with Burglary (say specifically in this case, picking a lock), to put a test to a pc when there is an important Burglary roll they need to make? While Stealth will help you do it quietly, I don't see any other skill that demonstrates the ability of a pc to use their hands except Craft.

The Fire making trait (I think you are calling 'quality'), or the purpose of all traits, is to:
1) distinguish characters and their roles - ie, if two players have high Craft, but you are requiring a Burglary roll - let the pc who has the Burglary trait make the roll!
2) allow for opportunities for pc development through Advancement points (if you don't have a related trait, it doesn't matter how high your skill is, you can't gain advancement with that skill by invoking an unrelated trait!)
3) help the game move through needless rolls when a pc is present in the company who fills the needed role (or who has the appropriate trait/skill)
4) give flavor to and distinguish the various playable cultures in the game

While Loremasters may come to their own conclusions about what skill a pc should use for a particular test, they still have to try to decide which skill is most appropriate in a given situation, especially since, as you observed Beran, the skills are limited and generic.

Just imagine what it was like when I ran a 2-night adventure using the TOR mechanics, but a zombie apocalypse setting!? When I had pcs trying to drive or hotwire cars, (for example) I had to come up with appropriate skill checks!

Thanks!

"Craft should cover any kind of task where a person is skilled with their hands."
Exactly.

Heroic fishing, that was pretty funny.

"The Craft skill doesn’t really cover the whole range of
abilities of smiths, wrights and other artisans, but reflects
the talent of a character for making or mending things
by hand, although Traits like Smithcraft or Woodwright
can be used to reflect proficiency in a specific craft."
p.92 AB

I guess it all comes down to how you read the above. To me it is saying the craft skill encompasses the ability to repair an already made object (if you have the proper tools...no matter how high your craft skill is you aren't going to be able to repair a broken blade in the middle of a field), or make something that will do in a pinch; not make something out whole cloth from scratch.

If I were to use the skill as you say I would have the player specify which craft the character has skill.

'If I were to use the skill as you say I would have the player specify which craft the character has skill'.

Would you do the same for the Athletics skill Beran?

Something like - 'I'm good at climbing, but I can't throw for toffee'.

Just wondering.

For me, if the character was trying to do something with Craft that was not really part of his character concept or he lacked a specific trait for, I would still let him roll, but I would adjust the TN accordingly. I may also require a prolonged action, representing the various skills the task would require, each roll could have a different TN (LB 23).

Craft: Cooking in the game is simply the Craft Trait. I think that's all it needs, especially when considering the flexibility of setting TNs.

Quite probably, yes.

I would also allow a "general" check for such skills, but at a higher TN then average.

This can be addressed with traits rather than more specific skills. Climbing, cooking, fire-making, boating, all suggest a specialism and the character using the skill should have a lower TN or succeed automatically.

I completly agree.