Where does the Gathering of Five Armies take place exactly and what time of the year?

The Loremaster's Book, p. 89 says, "The default campaign starts in 2946, on the occasion of the first Gathering of Five Armies, a celebration held in Esgaroth for the first time, five years after the eponymous battle."

But then on p. 95 it says, under the heading The Gathering of the Five Armies, "In the last days of November, on the fifth anniversary of the eponymous battle, a great feast celebrating the victory at the Battle of Five Armies is held in Dale for the first time."

It goes on to say, "During the first Gathering, envoys from Lake-town, the Woodland Realm and the Kingdom under the Mountain meet in the presence of King Bard to debate matters concerning Wilderland."

In the Marsh-Bell encounter with Gloin, he says, "My cousin Balin son of Fundin has left the Lonely Mountain with a companion. He was meant to personally deliver a letter, a formal invitation from King Dáin Ironfoot to the Lord of the Eagles for the coming Gathering of Five Armies, an important meeting to be held at the beginning of Summer."

Does the gathering happen in both s or is it simply a mistake on p. 89? That is my guess, but I would like to know for sure.

Also, which time of the year will it take place? According to The Hobbit, on the night that Bilbo and the Dwarves entered the Mountain, Thorin Oakenshield says, "Tomorrow begins the last week of autumn." And Bifur educates us further by saying, "And winter comes after autumn." Uhh, gee, thanks Bifur!

All of this happens before the defeat of Smaug and the Battle of Five Armies. After those events, Gandalf and Bilbo travel together and by mid-winter they spend Yule-tide at Beorn's house, not leaving there until spring.

This means that the late November reference is accurate for the anniversary of the Battle of Five armies. If the Gathering of Five Armies is meant to take place on the anniversary, then winter is the right time.

While not a sage on the matter, I believe the various references relate to:

Battle occured late Nov (winter) of 2941
5th anniversary of this battle sees a gathering of folks to celebrate the event.
There is a SECRET meeting transpiring behind the scenes - in which the Council of the North is being discussed/formed etc. I believe this secret meeting is what the eagle is being invited to.

Other possibilities:

The text is wrong about meeting in Summer
Gloin was wrong - perhaps the dwarf isn't good at telling seasons apart

Ack, how on earth did we all miss this? Good catch James.

Sir Kickley may be able to salvage the glitch for you with his suggestion about the secret meeting - this is probably how I'll get around it.

What is this secret meeting for? The lore master book hints that it may be in relation to forming the white council with one of the leaders of the wilder land.... But I thought sauron was given out of mirkwood before the Hobbit is even over

I don't think you guys missed anything. You're right, it is merely a meeting and not the actual celebration. A gathering so large, and encompassing several cultures would take some serious planning.

I started our campaign with all cultures on the west side of Mirkwood as having no knowledge of the upcoming festivities. After all, that's one of the reasons why the Marsh Bell takes place. The Dwarfs of the Lonely Mountain, Bardings, and Mirk Elves are all busy planning and preparing for the celebration, which could take months. This would give the opportunity for players to act as emissaries for Gloin/Bard, to bring news of the year-end event should characters return home after the Marsh Bell. This could even be an adventure in itself should your player party be lacking any western culture (my player group doesn't).

IIRC, it is specifically about Gandalf's fears of darkening in Mirkwood re-occuring, and perhaps even feelings he has about a growing shadow in general.

(No doubt awakened by Bilbo uncovering the One Ring. Though he doesn't yet know where to point fingers to - it's just a creeping feeling). Of course such meetings should be held in secret so as to not disrupt the emotions of hope that the people of the Wilderland are currently embracing and enjoying. The hope is what is driving them to rebuild all that was lost. To whisper of a growing shadow would only interrupt and prove to undermine the progress that hope is bringing.

I would consider this a little glitch ... it doesn't make sense for the celebration to take place in November, anyway. Why would you ask all these from distant places to travel to Dale/Esgaroth and back in the winter? Only to hold the celebration at the exact time of the anniversary?
The "secret meeting" makes sense, but I would just let it take place alongside the celebration. Why would you have the Emissaries travel back and forth, in a land and age where travelling is so dangerous?

Actually, November is a very active month in those areas, as many celebrations are held in coincidence with the end of the harvest season.
In particular, a celebration is held for the death of Smaug (Dragontide, early November, Esgaroth) and one for the victory at the Battle of Five Armies (Gathering of Five Armies, late November, Dale). Dragontide is detailed in the upcoming Lake-town book, while one Gathering is the object of one adventure in Tales from Wilderland. Sorry to be a tease!

So, references about the Gathering being in Esgaroth or in Summer were in error (Gloin's fault, obviously!.

Francesco

Thanks - than it's settled, at least!

Oh, sure, blame the errors on the Dwarf!

Thank you Francesco! That's a BIG help! I have been writing out the first adventure from The Hunting of the Wolves campaign outline I wrote and the starting place is Esgaroth and the back-drop includes preparations for many tourists who may be passing through Lake-town (on their way to Dale for the Gathering) and visiting the burial place of the dragon. Now I know it's called Dragontide!

I am very excited to get my hands on both Tales from Wilderland and Lake-town. Those two sources will help me with some details and let me know where I need to make changes. I really like to keep everything in line with official materials.

Could you tease us some more? Did you guys develop a tale about the Werewolf of Mirkwood? Do I need to change my campaign outline?

How often does the Gathering take place?

I'm about to start Tales from Wilderland, but sending the PCs west will mean they miss out on the first one. The Crossing of Celduin adventure relies on there being another one, though, so I'm unclear on when this is supposed to be. I'd assumed the Gathering was a one-off.

The first takes place in TA 2,946 which is five years after the battle. Should we space out future Gatherings similarly, the second will take place in TA 2,951. Mind you, I believe that's the year in which the Nazgûl return to Dol Guldur and the darkening of Mirkwood renews again in earnest. I doubt there are Gatherings for long, once the perils facing the Free People of the North increase beyond a certain level.

JamesRBrown,
I'm not sure Dragontide is a , but rather an event. At least that is how I read Francesco's comment. It could be both, but just wanted to point out the possibility. Example: New Year's Eve, Ground Hog's Day, Independence Day, All Hallow's Eve (Halloween), Dragontide, Thanksgiving, etc.

The could also just be Old Esgaroth/Laketown, The Fires of Smaug, Dragon's Coat, Temptation (which might work particularly well if a dwarf is set to guard the dragon's remains and warn off potential "acquisition specialists" - Smaugh's gem encrusted remains are just out of reach in the water after all).

Anyway, I'm sure your imagination is sufficient unto the task, as it were.


Ovid & UndeadTrout,
The short answer is the Gathering of Five Armies would be held yearly.

Expanding a bit: This is a multi-racial and cultural event which includes a number of shorter lived peoples. As such any extended passage of time would make commemoration moot. Relevance to their lives is time dependent - once the members of the army and/or their families pass away, there is less likelihood of the occasion being commemorated or remembered. What is really being remembered is "Uncle Bob fought and died here to protect us".


re: Secret Meeting
You folks are talking about two different meetings. One appears to be a Meeting of the White Council (Wise) prior to some of the events of the Hobbit. While at other times you're talking about a post-Bo5A meeting to plan a celebration (the Gathering). Not sure anyone else noticed the discrepancy there.

While not particularly secret, I would imagine that the initial stages of creating and organizing the Gathering were held privately. Mostly to establish a timetable, consider participation, order necessary goods with sufficient crafting time, etc. The initial start-up is the most likely time to find adverse responses or encounter conflicts. Better these should be handled privately than publicly.

Yes. That is how I understood it - not as a , but an event. When I said, "Now I know it's called Dragontide!" I was referring to the event of tourists coming to Lake-town on their way to the Gathering of Five Armies - not to the burial place of Smaug itself. In my adventure, I did not name the event of tourists coming to Esgaroth, but Francesco gave it a name for me!

Out of my own imagination, I thought that folks might be interested in visiting the burial place, but I did not think of a named annual celebration.

It strikes me that annual is a bit too often, given the difficulty of travelling. Middle-Earth isn't a late medieval society which can support something like the fairs of Champagne, at least not this far north. I suspect biennial would make more sense.

'bump'

That was an interesting read, thanks for the thread necromancy!

Quite apropos.

Wow who would have thought that Halbarad was actually the Necromancer. Someone really should tell Aragorn.*

*Okay timeline wise this joke makes no sense.