First of all hi to everyone from Berlin, Germany. I just received the German translation of TOR and can't wait to try it out ...

However, I can't help thinking a few decades ahead: I know that the license for TOR extends only to the material from The Hobbit and LOTR, and that the Tolkien estate is notoriously reluctant to grant any rights for anything based upon The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales.

Still, does anyone think that there's any way that something like a Beleriand campaign setting could happen one day?

Hi Jakob, and welcome!
I don't know about the actual chance of having a Beleriand setting, but I think it would be a great idea (I'm just re-reading my Silmarillion, by the way...).

I'm just reading "Children of Hurin" (I had only read the version in Unfinished Tales back then), and it struck me how well the setting would fit with the TOR system: There's a huge emphasis on the shadow aspect of the main character (his pride), there's lots of travelling, and it would be easy so set a game spanning several generations of player characters against the backdrop of the war against Morgoth.
It's also interesting how bad the elves and Turin, the hero himself, often look in the book. Turins behaviour towards the dwarf Mim is atrocious (you can't really blame Mim for ratting him out to the Orcs), and the way he just murders the unarmed Easterlings after his homecoming is also not pretty ...
It would be a great setting to play more powerful, but also more ambivalent and tragic characters.

I just read "Children of Hurin" a few months ago, and I was struck by two things. One, it was a surprisingly enjoyable story, and two, its really dark and tragic tone. The portrayal of Elves in particular was a far cry from the "paragons of virtue" that we gamers tend to see Tolkien Elves as.

John

Just a correction, it's not the Tolkien Estate that controls the use of Tolkien's material in non-literary ways, but Tolkien Enterprises, now Middle-earth Enterprises, a division of The Saul Zaentz Corp. The only reason I mention this is because ME has done a grave injustice to the Tolkien Estate in its use of the license first and foremost in the way they have controlled the use of Middle-earth by "Other Hands." For those who love MERP, know it's history and demise, this is a sharp point. But, let me not rant...

I think that seeing the elves as "paragons of virtue" at least in Tolkien's works is seeing things from a stilted viewpoint. Perhaps because of the virtue of both Elrond and Galadriel being so well known, there is an image of this overall. However, this is not the rule. Look at Feanor. He is a vindictive and obsessed fellow. He kills his own kindred while blinded by his lust for the Silmarils. Eol was an odd bird also. He managed to ensnare Aredhel and coerced her to marry him. Not the most noble of actions to say the least. Given the tragic history of the first children it is no surprise that the book would be a dark tragic tale. I have heard good things about it and will make a point of getting my hands on it for a read.

P.S. Galadriel isn't so pure either, after all she was one of those who rebelled against the Valar, and was banned from return to the Undying Lands.

The noldor elves are as nasty a lot as any collection of human rulers. For example, Galadriel rebelled because she wanted to go rule a land of her own. In short, she was power-hungry.

Also, if you read LotR carefully, you'll see that the elves ain't all that kindly. In particular, they are running away rather than fighting because they are tired. No, that's not evil, but it's not particularly good.

Bottom line - the elves are no more "good" than any other race.

-Jeff

@Eluadin:
Interesting, I think I never quite understood how this works ... I thought Zaentz controlled only the rights for THE HOBBIT and LOTR und everything else was controlled by the estate, and that that would be the reason why all the rpg material is based upon these two works - wasn't it the same way with MERP, at least officially?

In 1969, Tolkien sold the rights for translating his works into media other than the Literary genre to United Artists who sold them to the Saul Zaentz Corp. At the time, the only published works were The Hobbit and The LotR. Consequently, Tolkien Enterprises (now Middle-earth Enterprises as a division of the Saul Zaentz Corp.) could only license the content from those books. Anything published after 1969 falls outside their license and this includes The Silmarillion among other things. In a sense, rights-to-use in other media have only been granted for The Hobbit and The LotR, and not Middle-earth in its entirety. That said, ICE used material published after 1969; and we can only speculate why no action was taken. That is, no action was taken until Peter Jackson's movies were announced. It should be noted that Tolkien Enterprises initiated the cease-and-decist that closed down ICE's MERP line. Tolkien Estate seemingly was not involved in that decision.

The haunting question is why the Tolkien Estate has not granted further rights for books such as The Silmarillion, Children, etc.

Thanks for elaborating!
As I understand it, it is probably not that interesting for an rpg publisher to pursue rights for anything published after 1969 - after all, you would then have to deal with a third party. And the HOBBIT and LOTR Licenses are probably the ones that have a broader appeal.

In my opinion this was purely a matter of money. In those days of MERP (1982 to 1999), there was not that much money to be milked out the license for games and movies based on the books, and accordingly, ICE's regular overstepping of the license caught not overly much attention (or none at all).
In this context it might be noteworthy that Mithril Miniatures (still in business) even managd to get approval for two series of miniatures (with about 8 figures in each series) clearly based on The Silmarillion (IIRC they were called 'The Lay of Leithian' and 'The Black Sword') from ME (then TE) before being slapped on its fingers for it. At least the minis were beautiful and I got a couple of them

In the media hype and promotional preparation for the first movie TE was of course interested to re-license the stuff (now they could wrest a lot more money from it; especially with newly drawn contracts) and IMO that was the reason they finished off ICE.

Since now really big money was involved in all this derivative stuff and the attention was much greater of course and license issues were in the spotlight. A lot of money is not always for the better...

IIRC the Estate (represented primarily by Christopher) is not at all interested in such non-literary stuff (perhaps by feeling it is below the standard?) and therefore nothing along this line happens. That's my opinion from long experience, though I may be completely wrong in that

Best
Tolwen

No.
Won't happen.
What fans do is something else.

Personally, I'm glad as I find The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings more than sufficient.

Yes, there's no possibility for an official Beleriand supplement. But a fan based one could probably be done. I was considering that for my campaign.

The game Age of Shadow uses Basic Roleplaying to simulate a setting closely based on the First Age, though using a different map, etc. It's free.