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sharnett |
Posted: Sep 29 2011, 12:57 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 11 Member No.: 1211 Joined: 1-September 10 |
(This is inspired by Michael Martinez's article about the horror of living in southern Mirkwood. H/t to timb and Francesco.)
I've sometimes wondered how Sauron came to be called 'the Necromancer'. Did he occupy Amon Lanc and then announce that henceforth the hill would be known as the Hill of Sorcery and that he would be addressed as 'the Necromancer'? Possible, I suppose, but unlikely: it's just too open a strategy. Going from memory (as I don't have any books to hand), I seem to recall that everything Tolkien writes about Sauron-as-Necromancer points to a slow, secret, even furtive, process of infiltration. Therefore, it is much more likely that the peoples of Mirkwood became (more or less slowly) aware of a dark spirit occupying the Naked Hill, one involved in dark magic, causing them to rename it the Hill of Sorcery, and to refer to its chief residing power as the Necromancer. Why that particular name, though? Just what kind of magic was being worked on Dol Guldur? Did Sauron practice death-magic, or was the name simply a synonym for one engaged in all manner of witchcraft? The latter is certainly what the editors of the Encyclopedia of Arda believe: 'A "necromancer" is technically a magician with power over the spirits of the dead,' they write, 'but Tolkien almost certainly intends the more general sense of "black magician".' I'm not so sure. At the very least, Martinez's wonderful travelogue made me think that one could create a lot of rich TOR adventures by haunting southern Mirkwood haunted with phantoms, phantoms summoned up or somehow created by the Necromancer. An enemy with specific power over the spirits of the dead is a lot more terrifying (to me at least) than one who is just generally involved in 'black magic'. Anyway, just riffing: I don't know how any of this relates to TOR, or how it might translate in an adventure or a campaign, although this article did get me thinking... The people of 8th century Ireland were afraid of zombies, too |
Djd |
Posted: Sep 29 2011, 02:58 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 23 Member No.: 1921 Joined: 13-September 11 |
They didn't realise he was Sauron at first as I recall and presumably he wasn't keen to announce his come-back until he was strong enough?
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Francesco |
Posted: Sep 29 2011, 04:29 PM
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Group: Playtesters Posts: 256 Member No.: 864 Joined: 22-January 10 |
I don't know if it's the case, but I interpreted the phantoms to be a manifestation of the Ringwraiths, going about without a physical form.
Francesco |
Tolwen |
Posted: Sep 29 2011, 04:48 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 430 Member No.: 862 Joined: 21-January 10 |
I agree absolutely. At the time of the "settlement" of Amon Lanc by the Dark Lord, Sauron was very weak and eager to avoid everything that might be interpreted by his ancient enemies as his return. In this he was so successful that it took about 1000 years until Gandalf acted on his first suspicions and infiltrated Dol Guldur to verify the identity of the "Necromancer". Since Sauron fled before his cover was blown, he managed being identified for another 800 years. The "Necromancer" label might be the appellation given to him by local Northmen (Woodmen) who thought (through Sauron's subtle machinations) that he (as the evil power slowly creeping through southern Greenwood - later Mirkwood) had power over their deceased ancestors. Whether true or not (within Middle-earth's metaphysical laws), the belief he was able to do that would be more than enough to scare them to death. Coupled with a "little" evil sorcery (phantoms etc.) such men would have no chance not believing this... As Francesco said, some unclad Ringwraiths would be perfect to impersonate ancestor spirits being "taken over" as well Best Tolwen -------------------- Visit Other Minds - a free international journal devoted to roleplaying and scholarly interests in J.R.R. Tolkien's works
Other Minds now has a new group in Facebook. Come and join there! |
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RangerOfIthilien |
Posted: Sep 29 2011, 05:43 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 58 Member No.: 1960 Joined: 22-September 11 |
Perhaps because of my familiarity with the original AD&D and various and sundry movies that deal with necro-anything, I always assumed that the Necromancer used his magic to enslave spirits to his will however he wished. Whether this involved animating the dead or just summoning disembodied spirits the dead's the dead I would say.
Given that barrow wights are the bodies of men possessed by spirits from beyond, then it wouldn't be too much of a jump that Sauron as Necromancer would do more of the same and then some. Like any change in a region I'm sure that Sauron didn't just hang out a shingle announcing it's name as Dol Guldur upon his residency. Most likely he secretly moved into the region and constructed a small base of operations. Then some unsuspecting Woodman or some-such saw that light in the tower on the hill one night and desiring shelter he climbed up to investigate. That innocent traveller never returned to his village, and as time passed more and more travellers and even nearby residents came up missing. Also odd things lurked in the vicinity of that place, as well as strange lights on the hill and foul vapours. Over time people were sure to figure out that something was amiss and well you know the rest. A little interesting etymology on necromancer. The word comes from a mix of ancient Greek origin, meaning literally "corpse diviner". If you took that at it's base form then a priest that used the innards of any type of corpse to predict the future fits the definition. -------------------- "He is bold, more bold than many deem; for in these days men are slow to believe a captain can be wise and learned in the scrolls of lore and song, as he is, and yet a man of hardihood and swift judgement in the field. But such is Faramir. Less reckless and eager than Boromir, but not less resolute."
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thriddle |
Posted: Sep 29 2011, 06:49 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 96 Member No.: 1862 Joined: 29-August 11 |
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RangerOfIthilien |
Posted: Sep 29 2011, 07:58 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 58 Member No.: 1960 Joined: 22-September 11 |
Thriddle, from the description of the mewlips in your link it sounds like they are the 'marshpeople' from the intro Marsh Bell adventure.
-------------------- "He is bold, more bold than many deem; for in these days men are slow to believe a captain can be wise and learned in the scrolls of lore and song, as he is, and yet a man of hardihood and swift judgement in the field. But such is Faramir. Less reckless and eager than Boromir, but not less resolute."
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thriddle |
Posted: Sep 30 2011, 04:48 AM
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Group: Members Posts: 96 Member No.: 1862 Joined: 29-August 11 |
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Francesco |
Posted: Sep 30 2011, 05:02 AM
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Group: Playtesters Posts: 256 Member No.: 864 Joined: 22-January 10 |
Oh! Francesco |
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sharnett |
Posted: Sep 30 2011, 07:01 AM
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Group: Members Posts: 11 Member No.: 1211 Joined: 1-September 10 |
thriddle, that document is brilliant. Thanks for posting it.
You know, I actually have Vol X of HoME at home on my bookshelves somewhere, but its been an age since I read it, and I'd forgotten about the distinction Tolkien made between the bodies and spirits of the Elves. So, while it's possible that Martinez's phantoms might be Nazgul, I rather think they are the restless spirits of Elves, caught in Middle-earth between their own fading and the Necromancer's power. (In fact, now that I think of it, that would also explain why the Woodsmen fear the phantoms, but don't fear being turned into phantoms; it's something that cannot happen to Men, or only rarely...). All of which makes sense not only of Martinez's (non-canon) story, but also of the Barrow-wights, who are canon, are phantoms of some description, but are certainly not Ringwraiths. PS. Of course, none of this precludes the presence of Nazgul in and around Dol Guldur; impersonating ancestors, like Tolwen suggests, and/or controlling the phantoms in some manner. PPS. Ranger, I think your post is probably a fairly accurate description of how the Woodsmen first became aware of the Necromancer's presence... |
Rapscallion |
Posted: Sep 30 2011, 06:27 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 37 Member No.: 1764 Joined: 6-August 11 |
It's also no surprise that Sauron earned such a title given the naming proclivities of the men that live in Dol Guldur's shadow. With examples such as The Hound and The Bride, The Necromancer fits right in as a palpable malignance emanating from the Hill of Sorcery. Jumble in the Ringwraiths, and other possible inhabitants such as restless wights and oathbreakers, and all this makes Sauron's title more understandable.
-------------------- Ash nazg durbatulūk...
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Eluadin |
Posted: Sep 30 2011, 09:27 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 277 Member No.: 1790 Joined: 11-August 11 |
For a reason why Sauron is named the Necromancer we need look no farther than his letters, I.e., letters 131 and 257. In 257, Tolkien states the Necromancer was made up on the spot, a casual reference of sorts to explain why Gandalf had to leave Bilbo and the Dwarves. This was then later connected to the magic ring, The Ring; and this was used as the primary means of connecting The Hobbit to his larger mythology. (As an aside, Tolkien's wonderful tale, Lead by Niggle, describes this process of "connecting" in an autobiographical way through the medium of fiction. Simply delightful in its honesty....)
Letter 131, offers us how Tolkien made sense of the Sauron-Necromancer connection. That is, he explains why Sauron is know as 'the Necromancer.' Sauron was possessed of a power to render invisible the material body until it became wraith-like, disembodied, a shadow cast over all things that grow with life. This quality of Sauron, one in which fuels or bestows the invisibility power on all the rings of power influenced by Sauron, is precisely why Tolkien names him the Necromancer in his own thought. Or, how having created the Necromancer as a narrative device for The Hobbit, Tolkien mythologically connects him to the larger figure of Sauron. Of course, it's not clear from what linguistic or cultural sources Tolkien derived his meaning of the word 'necromancer' though we can speculate. Regards, E |
RangerOfIthilien |
Posted: Oct 1 2011, 12:06 AM
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Group: Members Posts: 58 Member No.: 1960 Joined: 22-September 11 |
bit OT but had to share this linkMewlips!
-------------------- "He is bold, more bold than many deem; for in these days men are slow to believe a captain can be wise and learned in the scrolls of lore and song, as he is, and yet a man of hardihood and swift judgement in the field. But such is Faramir. Less reckless and eager than Boromir, but not less resolute."
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Jib |
Posted: Jan 12 2012, 11:10 AM
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Group: Members Posts: 38 Member No.: 2285 Joined: 2-January 12 |
Do you suppose that The Necromancer had various minions who would have spread his evil after he was chased out of the Mirkwood?
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Mim |
Posted: Jan 12 2012, 01:04 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 372 Member No.: 2116 Joined: 7-November 11 |
From a gaming perspective I'd say absolutely! You can integrate certain key servants of the Shadow that Sauron may have tasked to lurk within Mirkwood or the surrounding environs following his expulsion (flight) from Dol Guldur & prior to his final attacks in time for the War of the Ring.
Mind, they will have to act subtly & probably be few in number, but if you have some special villains in mind & they operate surreptitiously, you can write a winning scenario. In fact, I won't be surprised if Francesco includes something to this effect in The Darkening of Mirkwood on down the road. |
Mim |
Posted: Jan 12 2012, 01:08 PM
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Group: Members Posts: 372 Member No.: 2116 Joined: 7-November 11 |
Thank you for posting The Mewlips link.
Until I viewed Svensson's art, I only had Pauline Bayne's work to go with from my aging copy of The Tolkien Reader - not that any of us are presuming any links between these creatures & The Marsh Dwellers . |
Francesco |
Posted: Jan 12 2012, 05:33 PM
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Group: Playtesters Posts: 256 Member No.: 864 Joined: 22-January 10 |
...clever guy. But you'll have to blame Gareth Hanrahan for that. Francesco |
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