Hey everyone.

I decided to try to my hand at developing a couple of new adversaries for TOR after seeing voidstate's excellent rendition of Easterlings.. Since there are no Undead available in the current bestiary, I decided to tackle that.

My first issue, there is no ability that adequately describes the Undead condition, so I hit that first. I wanted it to be something similar to great size, but I imagine the undead of Tolkien's world being a lot more scary that your average D&D skeleton.

So Here's what I came up with.

Undead - An Undead creature is not slain until it receives a number of wounds equal to its attribute level. Any undead creature will return to its original form the following night unless its remains are scattered under the Midday sun.

Makes them sufficiently nasty. And helps to explain the sheer power level of the Nazgul. If they have attributes around seven to nine... good luck!

Secondly, I especially wanted to model the terror that I felt as a kid when I first read about Frodo and the other hobbits when they were trapped in the Barrow-Wight's tomb. So I gave Wight's two Dreadful Spells.

The Black Breath - a hero who fails the Corruption test due to the Black Breath gains the Weary condition.
Calling of the Grave - a hero who fails a Corruption test while within the bounds of the Wight’s domain are drawn unwillingly to the Wight’s resting place.

Finally, I've put together a standard Wight. I'm still tinkering with it, but I wanted to share.

Wight, Lesser

Attribute Level 5
Endurance 40
Hate 7
Parry 4
Armor 3d

Skills
Personality 0
Movement 3
Perception 4
Survival 0
Custom 0
Vocation 3

Weapon Skills
Claws 2
Swords 3

Special Abilities
Thing of Terror (TN 16)
Denizen of the Dark
Dreadful Spells*†
Hate Sunlight
Hideous Toughness
Undead

*The Black Breath: a hero who fails the Corruption test due to the Black Breath gains the Weary condition.
†Calling of the Grave: a hero who fails a Corruption test while within the bounds of the Wight’s domain are drawn unwillingly to the Wight’s resting place.

It may be a little too OP, especially with Denizen of the Dark in the mix, but it fits.
Ideas? Criticisms?

I'm imagining three levels of Wights - Minor, Lesser, and Greater. Each representing a different threat level.

EDIT: Changed some entries and fixed some skills. Added Swords as a weapon skill.

Certainly worthy adversaries. I would also give them Weapon Skill: Long Sword myself because of the ceremonial swords mentioned in the Fellowship. Something about hateful undead bearing great wicked looking swords that chills the bones. Your wights look great to me!

Thanks

Here are two more: The Minor Wight, and the terrible Great Wight

Wight, Minor

Attribute Level 3
Endurance 15
Hate 5
Parry 3
Armor 3d

Skills
Personality 0
Movement 2
Perception 2
Survival 0
Custom 0
Vocation 2

Weapon Skills
Claws 1
Swords 2

Special Abilities
Strike Fear (TN 14)
Denizen of the Dark
Dreadful Spells*
Hate Sunlight
Hideous Toughness
Undead

Note: Minor Wights only have access to the Black Breath. They do not have the strength of will to forcibly bring victims to their lairs. However, Minor wights are more numerous than their more terrible cousins and can be found in many ruins and ancient battlefields across Middle-Earth.

Wight, Great

Attribute Level 7
Endurance 65
Hate 9
Parry 6
Armor 4d

Skills
Personality 0
Movement 4
Perception 5
Survival 0
Custom 0
Vocation 4

Weapon Skills
Claws 4
Swords 5

Special Abilities
Thing of Terror (TN 18)
Denizen of the Dark
Dreadful Spells*†
Hate Sunlight
Hideous Toughness
Undead

Great Wights reside only in areas where great men have fallen or have been buried. They are singular beings, they do not tolerate any living being in their presence and will attempt to destroy any that come within their domain. Any creature killed by a Great Wight will return as a minor wight themselves within a weeks time.

EDIT: Changed weapons skill entries

A pattern I have noticed is for the primary attack to be not underlined and the secondary attack to be one dice lower but underlined.

Also, "Minor" and "Great" are maybe a bit Dnd? ALthough I can't think of anything better right now. Maybe something like "Grave Wight", "Crypt Wight" and "Barrow Wight"? Although it would be cool to have lesser wights as those who have not been buried at all.

I certainly get the D&Dism of Minor, Lesser and Greater. I just couldn't think of anything that would be a better descriptor for them. I wanted to avoid specific titles, like crypt or barrow, because I didn't want to pigeonhole them. But, I'm open to suggestions!

Great observation on the Pri and Sec weapon skills. I'll have to fix that!

The LotR MMO likes to use royal titles like "lord" for some of their monsters. SO maybe Barrow Wight, Barrow Lord, Barrow Prince?

I like what I see here so far. The Undead ability seems incredibly powerful. Even a minor wight is going to be one heck of a fight. What happens when an Undead creature hits 0 Endurance? Weary?

As a Lotro junkie there are all sorts of wights, including annoying diseased wights that breathe a terrible plague that affects the living and some odd wights in the Trollshaws (!)
Taking from the game, some possible suggestions: Deadly, Deathly, Barrow Warden, Barrow Archer, etc. Sorcerous wights are known as Gaunt Men.

I ran a short play test with some friends (party of 4) last night using a Lesser Wight as a single opponent. It was an extremely difficult fight. Two players fell to the wight before it was finally destroyed.

The mix of endurance and the Undead ability coupled with the black breath dreadful spell, made the Wight almost un-killable. The general consensus at the table was that Wights don't need endurance, as they are dead, and the wounds that wights receive represent the sheer amount of damage you need to do to one before it finally "gives up the ghost".

After further consideration, the Undead ability is extremely powerful. Maybe three levels of the Undead ability instead? That way you could add it as a modifier to any existing creature? Evil spirits abound in Middle-Earth, I'm sure some have possessed the remains of more creatures than just men.
Undead - Any creature with the Undead ability keyword adds a number of additional wounds according to the level of Undead chosen. The creature also reduces its current endurance score to zero.
Undead I = 1 additional wound to destroy
Undead II = 2 additional wounds to destroy
Undead III = 3 additional wounds to destroy

I'm not sure yet, just throwing out ideas. Back to the drawing board!

Wights are supposed to be very nasty opponents. But after last night's misadventure, maybe not THAT nasty

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't know of anything in Tolkien's writing that gives us an indication of how hard a barrow-wight should be to "kill" in combat. Bombadil can dismiss them, but it's pretty hard to know what that signifies. Were any other encounters with wights described beyond FotR? Or is it just down to individual taste as much as anything?

Nope, you're correct. Aside from the barrow-wight, there is not any other mention of them in the books that I remember. I think that the spirits inhabiting the dead marshes were some form of wight as well, not sure if that was ever fully explained. So we really don't have a good gauge as to how powerful they should be.

When I think of BAD things in Middle-Earth, I tend to think of the singular memorable baddies. Sauron, The Balrog, Smaug, The Witch-King, Saruman, The Mouth, the Watcher in the Water, Shelob, and the Barrow-wight. So personally, I tend to hold wights as particularly powerful because they hold such a unique place in the lore.

Now ALL that being said, I am no Tolkien scholar. So I might be way off the mark here.

So after that long sidebar (Sorry) I would say its probably down to individual taste.

I just wanted to try my hand at creature creation and to fill out the bestiary a bit to add a little more variety.

Hey, no worries. No criticism implied or intended, and thanks for your efforts (maybe I should have opened with that!).

It's just that when you said "maybe not *that* nasty", my first thought was that actually I don't think a group of beginning adventurers *should* be able to take down a barrow-wight as described in FotR, so maybe still not nasty enough.

But on the other hand, we are all looking for stuff we can use in our current games, which *do* have beginning adventurers, so I think the quest for a "type of wight" that *is* a suitable opponent is very worthwhile.

I applaud efforts to expand material for the game.

On Barrow Wights a few things.

By canon, they are not strictly speaking undead. They are the corpses of men inhabited by evil spirits sent from Angmar by the Witch King (Lord of the Nazgûl) during his long war against the northern kingdoms earlier in the Third Age, not the actual dead person animate.

By speculation (not canon) this was in part psychological warfare, seeking to dishearten foes, terrorize them and spread misinformation as to Eru's plan and the true order of things. There are frequent references to "phantoms" (Mirkwood, Osgilliath) in Middle Earth that are likely just that, not really ghosts but efforts by the Enemy to spread terror and make men fear what comes after death instead of having faith in Eru's will. The Enemy is frequently promulgating worship of Morgoth/Melkor and false claims concerning the origins of the world and the struggle of the Valar and the Enemy.

Other Minds issues #1 and to lesser extent #3 have excellent source quotations from various Tolkien material and thoughts about barrow wights, suggesting RPG type powers based on Tolkien's conception of them (e.g., the point of the ritual being worked on captive at one point was to cast the captive into an eternal sleep from which they would not wake until Morgoth's final victory [assuming that happens]).

They do not suggest Black Breath as something Barrow Wights possess (Tolkien at one point considered the barrow wights similar to black riders etc. but then apparently discarded that idea).

http://www.omzine.org/downloads/other-mind...glish-pdf-files

Issue 11 of Other Minds has a useful article generally on what's "impossible" and "possible but against moral law" in Middle Earth. It suggests human undeath is not normally possible save by exceptions (the Oathbreakers and creatures infected before death with the power of Sauron such as Ringwraiths are exceptions). It's actual citation for this is a bit weak as it relies on a passage in History of Middle Earth, #10, Morgoth's Ring, which does not provide explicit support of this view (Note 4 to Arthabeth Findrod Ah Andreth). All that Morgoth's Ring passage states unequivocally is that humans never return to life as do slain elves at times (Beren again being a special exception). That humans are called to Mandos upon death without any choice in the matter (elves can linger as spirits if they choose, and evil ones can possess people etc, they are a candidate for evil spirits Angmar used), is given as a belief of the elves not as a fact. However, elves have been around a long time and have long memories so this belief has "quite a bit going for it". What is more open is the part of the belief that humans go to Mandos at all, rather than out of the world and time immediately, not the part that they have no choice/ability to stick around once their bodies are deceased.

Rob

Mechanics-wise you can fortunately skip the exact nature of such creatures. Most player characters will never know any more details than those that Barrow-wights are deadly and to be avoided at all costs. And even if they encounter one, how are they to know about it's ontological state in the world? Are they going to ask him before combat? And even if 'yes'; is he likely to tell them the truth (if he knows/remembers it himself)?

Therefore, the OM articles are right to discuss the matter. The superficial label "undead" has been applied to them since MERP times, and it is time to set that right
It is a useful piece of information for the Loremaster should ever the situation arise where the players will get to know such things to that level of detail (quite unlikely IMO). For gaming purposes though, the numbers as shown above can be retained in full. The only thing that need to be removed (if you're going to take the sources into account) is the label "undead". Everything else is fair enough.

Best
Tolwen

Appreciate the comments on wights. Like I've mentioned in previous posts, I'm aware that wights are remains of men that have been inhabited by evil spirits. Using the term "Undead" however just seems to fit better than any other descriptor. They're technically dead, yet they're up and moving about. Maybe "Restless Dead" instead? I'm open to suggestions...

ok on to some Good-Natured snarkiness...

A group of Adventurer's have just encountered a wight inside an ancient burial mound.

Scholar: AH! It's a Wight! of the Family Morgothius, genus wightus, species barrius!
Warden: (Stares at the scholar)
Wanderer: (Stares at the scholar)
Treasure-hunter (Stares at the scholar)
Wight: (Stares at the scholar, confused)
Slayer: (Slaps the scholar in the back of the head and charges the surprised wight)

Don't forget Eric Dubourgs nice Necromancy supplement with MERP and LotR(Decipher) rules:
http://halloffire.org/wp-content/uploads/2...romancy-0.9.pdf

Interesting Tolkien quotes and lots of other good inspiration.

That is a nice resource and does try to be close to canon for most part.

@Valvorik I liked your analysis and use of Other Hands to back it up.

Ditching the term Undead is probably a good idea. With the idea that they are a corruption of the gift of men (ie death)

I also like the zero endurance and wound idea.

I've been enjoying your points Kaltharion & I appreciate your developing these variants of Barrow-wights & such for us. I look forward to your futher posts - this is good stuff, & I for one intend to ruthlessly plagiarize, er, borrow these .

Somewhat true, but the Mouth of Sauron negates this fact implicitly.
He is stated to be ancient and not a wraith, wight or anything undead.

So, prolonged life is possible through Sorcery.

While the information regarding the temple in Armenelos is outside the limits of license, some ideas can be taken from there for fan works.

Sacrifices and most probably blood-letting (think Aztecs) were a part of the temple's function; the continual smoke is probably a reflection of the Nazi crematoriums.

Blood-letting and other blood-rites are a staple of many cultures regarding unlife, undeath or renewal of youth. Vampires, Lamasu and other forms of blood-draining, including blood-bathing ala the Countess of Bathory are numerous. Not surprisingly, blood-rituals are associated with Necromancy as well.

I find it hard to imagine that Ar-Pharazon and most of Numenor would blindly follow the teachings of Sauron unless some evidence of his sincerity could be given first. This would serve that function well, and explain why when Sauron states that permanent life via the UNDYING lands is possible, it might be taken up wholesale by a population. The sacrifices and whatnot would simply be a stop-gap function and the Lands overseas a permament one.
Now that! would be motivation for an all out assault.
Give a little truth along with proof and follow it with a huge lie.

Regarding the Oathbreakers, it is curious that the original function of the Black Stone of Erech until late in the writing game was as a Palantir. The oath was taken upon this stone, presumably so that the Powers could witness it firsthand and hold those taking it accountable.

I have heard this for more than 20 years. I guess it is a myth born by ICE's (MERP) interpretation, where he is indeed a millenia-old living sorcerer. A close look at the source does not give any hint for this interpretationn though, which by the way contradicts everything else Tolkien wrote about the (in-) ability of men to artificially prolong their (semi-) physical existence in Arda (e.g. Nazgûl) and still retain their mannish nature (e.g. a "normal" living man).

Best
Tolwen

You raise an excellent point Tolwen.

Since we're on the subject, I should probably clarify several of my previous posts - we hopefully all understand that some of these house rules & additions fall outside the license restrictions for Cubicle 7 (Unfinished Tales, The Silmarillion, etc.). It must be very frustrating for Francesco & his staff to work within these limitations.

That said, the Mouth of Sauron is one of my fav villains & makes a great recurring arch-nemesis. An editorial in Other Minds (I believe) addresses his prolonged life, however, noting this passage:

...And he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again, and because of his cunning he grew ever higher in the Lord’s favour; and he learned great sorcery, and knew much of the mind of Sauron and was more cruel than any orc...

The Red Book of Westmarch, 50th Anniversary Edition, III, The Black Gate Opens, 164.

When exactly did the tower rise again? During the flight of Sauron from Dol Guldur following the attack of the White Council? The writer even examines the end of the Second Age & the time leading up to the War of the Last Alliance of Elves & Men.

It's anyone's call & up to the LM of course. My two pence favors the former (2951 to 3019 T.A.).

Actually, no. From the canon text.
No MERP need apply.

The Lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dur he was, and his name is remembered in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it, and he said: ‘I am the Mouth of Sauron.’
But it is told that he was a renegade, who came of the race of those that are named the Black Númenoreans; for they established their dwellings in Middle-earth during the years of Sauron’s domination, and they worshipped him, being enamoured of evil knowledge [Sorcery]. And he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again, and because of his cunning he grew ever higher in the Lord’s favour; and he learned great Sorcery, and knew much of the mind of Sauron; and he was more cruel than any Goblin."

Since he was in Sauron's service since Barad-dur rose again (TA 2951) it would be something akin to senility to have forgotten his own name in a little over 60 years. Of course, there's no knowing how old he was in 2951. The Black Númenoreans were a virtually extinct race after Sauron fell at the end of the second age. The Mouth as a more-or-less pure-blood 3000 years later? Possible, but unlikely. Even Gondor's Númenorean blood had finally all but disappeared except in the Stewards and a little less so in the Princes of Dol Amroth.

"After the fall of Sauron their race [Black Númenoreans] swiftly dwindled or became merged with the Men of Middle-earth."

Not truly an important point altogether, but just something to consider.
Being ancient is the implied status given canon text.
The most closely apllicable term for Black Numenoreans (or Dark Dunedain if you prefer a more generalized term) at the time mentioned would be Corsairs of Umbar, a term that came into being with kin-strife and Castamir (TA 1448).

BTW I pretty much in general avidly dislike MERP and most writings of the author in after-the-fact manner to explain inconsistancies in the published work of Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.

I believe the general term for that practice is retcon. Especially so in documents that would never have seen publication except for his son or in what amounts to purely self-indulgent theological ponderings that often conflicted with each other.

No argument intended with you sir.

I have moved my replies into the new Mouth of Sauron thread as well, as it is not really about undead in the closer sense

Best
Tolwen

LOL,

Ok, time for a little thread necromancy as I bring it back on topic.

Here are my newest versions of wights. I have kept the term undead for the moment, but I have a couple of other terms floating in my notes as well. The three terms I have so far are: Undead, Fell Spirit, or Restless Dead

I have also rewritten the "Undead" Special Ability:
Undead - An Undead creature does not possess an endurance score and cannot be made weary. An Undead creature cannot be slain until it receives a number of wounds equal to its attribute level. Any undead creature will return to its original form the following night unless its remains are scattered under the Midday sun.

Dreadful Spells: The Black Breath has been renamed Touch of Death
Touch of Death - A Hero who fails the Corruption test due to the Touch of Death gains the Weary condition.
Calling of the Grave - A Hero who fails a Corruption test while within the bounds of the Wight’s domain are drawn unwillingly to the Wight’s resting place.


Wight, Minor

Attribute Level 3
Endurance 0
Hate 3
Parry 3
Armor 2d

Skills
Personality 0
Movement 2
Perception 2
Survival 0
Custom 0
Vocation 2

Weapon Skills
Claws 1
Swords 2

Special Abilities
Strike Fear (TN 14)
Denizen of the Dark
Dreadful Spells (Touch of Death)
Hate Sunlight
Undead

Note: Minor Wights only have access to the Touch of Death. They do not have the strength of will to forcibly bring victims to their lairs. However, Minor wights are more numerous than their more terrible cousins and can be found in many ruins and ancient battlefields across Middle-Earth.

Wight, Lesser

Attribute Level 4
Endurance 0
Hate 5
Parry 4
Armor 3d

Skills
Personality 0
Movement 3
Perception 3
Survival 0
Custom 0
Vocation 3

Weapon Skills
Claws 2
Swords 3

Special Abilities
Thing of Terror (TN 16)
Denizen of the Dark
Dreadful Spells (Touch of Death, Calling of the Grave)
Hate Sunlight
Undead

Wight, Great

Attribute Level 5
Endurance 0
Hate 7
Parry 5
Armor 4d

Skills
Personality 0
Movement 4
Perception 5
Survival 0
Custom 0
Vocation 4

Weapon Skills
Claws 4
Swords 5

Special Abilities
Thing of Terror (TN 18)
Denizen of the Dark
Dreadful Spells (Touch of Death, Calling of the Grave)
Hate Sunlight
Undead

Great Wights reside only in areas where great men have fallen or have been buried. They are singular beings, they do not tolerate any living being in their presence and will attempt to destroy any that come within their domain. Any creature killed by a Great Wight will return as a minor wight themselves within a weeks time.

Two more creations that came from more discussions with my players

Wight, Bog
The Bog wight results from the drowning death of someone in the retched recesses of fens and bogs. Those traveling in such foul places need to be on their guard, as these monsters lurk just below the water's surface waiting to drag their victims to a similar and untimely demise. (I imagine that the fell things that inhabit the dead marshes are a form of wight)

Attribute Level 3
Endurance 0
Hate 4
Parry 3
Armor 3d

Skills
Personality 0
Movement 3
Perception 2
Survival 0
Custom 0
Vocation 3

Weapon Skills
Claws 3

Special Abilities
Strike Fear (TN 16)
Dreadful Spells (Touch of Death, Watery Grave)
Hate Sunlight
Undead

Watery Grave - A Hero who fails a corruption test with a Bog Wight falls under the spell and is drawn underwater with the wight and begins to drown.

This last entry is just for fun. Something that came to me while I was working on the Bog wight.

Will o' the Wisp

Attribute Level 0
Endurance 0
Hate 2
Parry 0
Armor 0

Skills
Personality 0
Movement 4
Perception 0
Survival 0
Custom 0
Vocation 0

Weapon Skills
None

Special Abilities
Dreadful Spells (Traveller's Bane)
Hate Sunlight
Craven

Traveller's Bane - A Hero who fails the Corruption test, falls into a trance and is forced to follow the wisp.

So there's my current take on everything. Comments? Criticisms? Accolades?

I think that the term 'Fell Spirit' works just perfectly for your wights. As always, everything with me is currently Dale-centric or at least Rhovanion centric. We know that the Rohirrim and thus by default, the Eothraim and Eotheod bury their Kings in mounds so there could be potential for wights to be right across the Wilderland from the Anduin Vale to the Borders of Dorwinion.
Two questions(well ,three actually).
Would the Kings of Dale have been buried in mounds or burnt onfuneral biers?

If wights could be sent to possess bodies in Dale, might they been known colloquially as Draugr?

The Witch King sent the spirits to invade the barrows of Tyrn Gorthad. Although, obviously, much later, why did he not send them to Edoras? Might the symbelmyne flowers be representative of the subtle magic of Middle Earth at work and a barrier to 'fell spirits', a repellant in the way that modern tales have garlic and wolfsbane repelling vampires and werewolves......

And while we are on that subject..........


Oh yes, as a final thought, might symbelmyne also be found growing on the mounds of the Eothraim Kings and thosevof the Eotheod?

Hey, I really like the idea of simbelmynë (i not y) as a protective "spell".
That's just kinda... neat.

Fell spirit; that's not bad. Ominous and yet vague.

FWIW Eothraim is a MERPism (naughty naughty). "Northmen" would be better.
Éothéod is fine for the ancestors of the Rohirrim in the Anduin vale area.

Northmen covers both Rhovanion and Dale-men. So some similarity could be taken from that.

You could even develop that into a RP tale.
Say where the Northmen burn their dead giving the nod to the viking-like roots from which the culture was taken and to prevent any necromantic rituals used on them, to where the Éothéod discovered that simbelmynë protected their dead from the evil depredations of Angmar and evil sorceries.

Damnable Merp isms
Good ideas there Flim Flam about the simbelmyne and the burning of Northman dead.
Can't lay claim to 'fell spirit', it's one of Kaltharion's own ideas fo them.

Technically you're definitely right. But would that be the name they are called by others in the region (or by outsiders like Gondorians)? Or how they would call themselves? Such original names are IMO necessary for use in a game when you encounter such people or talk about them to others. Using these "generic" terms would be not false, but quite awkward and is IMO not really believable.

Therefore the MERP approach of inventing such things (and names) is IMO right, even if the technical execution (here: Éothraim) was not always that good.

Best
Tolwen

That's a possible explanation, though I would look in another direction. In the case of Tyrn Gorthad, these were the burial grounds of those people he was specifically tasked with destroying. His only purpose in the North was the destruction of Arnor, and for this, he used every means available to him. In addition, the Barrow-downs were much closer to Angmar than Edoras is from Minas Morgul.
The Rohirrim were not in his focus (or better: Sauron's), so they didn't get that attention. He had other, more important tasks given by Sauron than molesting the Rohirrim's royal barrows

Best
Tolwen

As for Dale Kings perhpas they borrowed a page from the Dwarves and buried their kings in stone mausoleums.

Ok, that's a good point about the Witch king not being focussed upon the Rohirrim. However, if we are going to accept the existence of Wights as evil spirits rather than as undead and that they can be found in a variety of places across Middle Earth then we also have to accept that someone had to create them. Perhaps the Witch King may not have been the only Nazgul with the power to create them.
I don't have any idea if there is anything in the canon to discredit this as a theory, but if not then I could easily see that Khamul the Easterling might have attempted to corrupt the tombs of the Kings in Rhovanion in much the same way. The riders of Rhovanion are likely to have been high on his list of enemies and he is likely to have been behind the invasions of the Wainriders and the Balchoth.

I'm a bit at a loss here. Whom do you mean with 'Riders of Rhovanion'? The Éothraim / Ehwathrumiska in the mid-Third Age?

Best
Tolwen

Yup. That's exactly who I mean. Sorry, was just trying to avoid using a non canon terminology for them. In 3019 they are commonly referred to as the Riders of Rohan, in the mid third age perhaps they were the Riders of Rhovanion?

Cheers

Halberd