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> Tolkien Estate Law Suit, Reason for the lack of PDFs?
Beran
Posted: Nov 30 2012, 07:09 PM
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"Beran, I am totally committed to TOR right now and probably won't go backwards and play a CODA game..."

Wasn't suggesting that, only that if you had asked me at the time I might have been able to help. smile.gif I'll have to read up on the combat rules again, so when I get a moment I'll see if I can sort this out. I have some RL stuff to clear up, a Yggdrasill PbP that is experiencing a slow start up, and re engineer LUG's Dune game mechanic over to that of ASOIF RPG to take care of first. You could be right, and I missed something with the coda system. wink.gif


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JamesRBrown
Posted: Nov 30 2012, 07:32 PM
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QUOTE (CraftyShafty @ Nov 30 2012, 10:34 AM)
If the authors are good, let them make their own worlds to play in.

My curiosity is getting to me CraftyShafty. How do adventure stories for a game like The One Ring fit into your opinion? Aren't the authors essentially playing in Tolkien's Middle-earth?

Again, I wonder what parameters are used by Zaentz to screen TOR materials submitted by Cubicle7 before final approvals? Are they simply looking to make sure Tolkien's other published material (such as The Silmarillion) isn't used in any way beyond The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings? Or do they also look for conflicts, whether that concerns characters, places, or morality? I doubt they do this, because I don't think their license covers novels or printed stories, and therefore, nothing is forcing them to screen the way Lucasfilm does, for example. TOR is a roleplaying game and not classified as a novel or collection of short stories. Most of the world will never read TOR material or even know that it exists (which is a shame because it really honors Tolkien's work). However, if an "expanded universe" kind of novel were to be released, it would be read and reviewed by virtually every Tolkien enthusiast and scholar in the world.


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Evening
Posted: Dec 1 2012, 02:04 AM
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IMO, Zaentz's lawyers screen TOR material to make sure nothing blatantly conflicts with the other copyright holders, the Tolkien Estate, which can sue for damages and any revenue. It's all about the money, and nothing more.

Zaentz is out to make money any way he can and I fear his team has considered licensing everything from Hobbit toilet paper to Legolas condoms.
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Tolwen
Posted: Dec 1 2012, 05:01 AM
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QUOTE (JamesRBrown @ Nov 30 2012, 11:32 PM)
Again, I wonder what parameters are used by Zaentz to screen TOR materials submitted by Cubicle7 before final approvals? Are they simply looking to make sure Tolkien's other published material (such as The Silmarillion) isn't used in any way beyond The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings? Or do they also look for conflicts, whether that concerns characters, places, or morality?

In addition to the - IMHO correct - summary posted by Evening, an interview given by a MEE representative (then in its contemporary name of 'Tolkien Enterprises') is quite insightful. In 1995 Laurie Battle was Licensing Director of 'Tolkien Enterprises' (now MEE) and interviewed by Chris Seeman, editor of Other Hands, predecessor to Other Minds (see my signature for link; there you can also download the full Issue with the interview). Until a few years ago Mrs. Battle was still in this position, though I don't know whether it's still the case.
Back then, the topic came to the quality and content of the then licensee Iron Crown Enterprises with its game MERP. I'm pretty sure you could replace 'MERP' also with 'LotRRPG' (Decipher) or 'TOR' and it wouldn't make any difference for MEE's answer...

QUOTE (Other Hands Magazine @ Issue 10/11 (October 1995))
Chris: [snip] How have the second edition MERP releases been received by Tolkien Enterprises? Is the general feeling that improvement or progress has been made towards a better quality product?
Laurie: To be honest, our eye is focused on royalty income rather than on the finer details of the games themselves. None of the people on our business end is personally involved in playing these kinds of games. I look through the Iron Crown releases to keep a sense of the general overview of what they’re doing, and I pay attention to feedback from various sources including people such as yourself, but I don’t engage at a deeper level than that.

From the past developments and behaviour, I'd deem it a safe bet that MEE's attitude has not changed a millimeter from the one in 1995. MEE is purely interested in the money and only peripherally in the content of the games once the lawyers have declared them "safe" licensing-wise.
Or in other words - they probably don't give a sh... whether TOR is designed carefully and with empathy towards the source or only roughly adhering to the books as long as the license is not breached and royalties come regularly.

Cheers
Tolwen


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Beran
Posted: Dec 1 2012, 08:19 AM
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"Laurie: To be honest, our eye is focused on royalty income rather than on the finer details of the games themselves. None of the people on our business end is personally involved in playing these kinds of games. I look through the Iron Crown releases to keep a sense of the general overview of what they’re doing, and I pay attention to feedback from various sources including people such as yourself, but I don’t engage at a deeper level than that."

This is rather disheartening, really. sad.gif


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Mim
Posted: Dec 1 2012, 01:23 PM
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QUOTE (JamesRBrown @ Nov 30 2012, 11:32 PM)
Most of the world will never read TOR material or even know that it exists (which is a shame because it really honors Tolkien's work).

The legal mess is disconcerting to many of us, however, let's look at a couple of quick points:

1. ToR is probably small change to the people involved in this action. Dom & his team will likely do everything they can to abide within any restrictions resulting from this fracas.

Note James' point about how this is probably not even going to raise an eyebrow among the attorneys. Just imagine a meeting:

"RPGs? What are those? Oh yes, I remember some chap back in school who was into that sort of thing. Hmm. They grossed how much from this game last quarter? Meh. Let's move on to the merchandising issue - just look at these numbers." cool.gif

2. There's nothing any of us can do about it. Unless you're an attorney involved in this action, let's recall basic stress management - most stress is self-induced. wink.gif
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