Regarding certain Specialties I am wondering how they might play out during game time.

For example the Specialtiy, Mountaineering.

Lets say the fellowship is traversing a difficult mountainous area and one of the characters has Mountaineer.

I would assume that a character familiar with the difficulties of traveling in the mountains would bring appropriate gear for that.

Would that incur Encumberance?

Next lets say the fellowship comes to a ledge that would require rolls to successfully maneuver.

Would the character with Mountaineer automatically succeed and the rest of the party need to make their rolls?

I appreciate any clarification

Thanks!

My 2 cents:
Traveling gear is not supposed to add to fatigue so being a mountaineer and having ropes, spikes, etc... should not impact fatigue.

You don't HAVE to let the mountaineer automatically succeed at any roll related to mountaineering. The way I read the rules is you may allow them to automatically succeed if you choose. I believe that the LM book says that when someone invokes a trait you CAN: either 1 allow them automatic success, 2 allow them to roll at something you would not let another character roll for, or 3 treat them normally but once it's resolved give them an advancement point. My reading is the LM can adjudicate as he sees fit.

In your example if you as the LM chose to let the mountaineer succeed without having to roll, and if every character was supposed to have to make a roll, yes, they succeed without having to roll, while the other characters still have to roll.

I myself would only let a character with a specialty automatically succeed under 2 conditions: 1 if them passing the roll makes for a better story (that is you want them to succeed as a story teller) OR 2 if it was something that an expert would probably find easy or routine. If it doesn't fit either of those 2 criteria I'd just make it so that they had to roll, and once the action was resolved they would get an advancement point. But that's just me. I find most of my players like to roll dice if the results seem uncertain but important.

The only time the Loremaster should prevent the Mountaineer from automatically succeeding is when he decides the action requires a great or extraordinary success. Arbitrarily deciding that a Mountaineer can't do ordinary mountaineering is unfair. And of course, if the Mountaineer then gets a great or extraordinary success, he's probably due an advancement point.

Regarding gear, I would allow them to do so provided there is a reasonable expectation that they might encounter mountainous terrain. If, for instance, the party was headed into a sand-dune desert with no known mountains anywhere near their travel route, I would not expect them to have a full set of mountain climbing gear. They might have rope and I might push things to allow a grappling hook, but probably not more than that.

Automatic success can be invoked at any time but in most cases it will be for non-critical situations. So, in your ledge example, if the idea is for the characters to work a bit in order to get across the gap (but otherwise has no major plot significance) than an automatic success if fine. On the other hand, same place, same ledge, same party, but now someone must take word to the Iron Hills dwarven settlement that an army of Orcs (who are just behind the party members) are headed toward the settlement... I would require a roll since the message bearer is pressured and leaving their companions behind to possible death.

Thank you for the clarification on the gear. In every case I allow the players to choose their adventure path. Regarding terrain, they will have time and resources to prepare accordingly.

Ahhh, this is a good example of a meaningful story device.

As I get more in-depth understanding I of TOR I am gaining more appreciation for it. At first glance it all seems rather ambiguous, and abstract but getting various viewpoints from you guys helps to realize what can be done with these bits and pieces.

It also helps me re-think this system which is different from systems with hard numbers for everything.

Thanks for the replies

Regarding automatic successes: In my game I put heavy emphasis on the rule that an Automatic success is a Basic Success. I.e., it is fairly slow and, while successful, covers only the bare minimum needed to consider the action successful.

Example: A burglar is trying to pick a lock. He can take an Automatic success, but the action will take some time (up to 5 minutes). It is guaranteed, though, that eventually he will get through the lock. On the other hand, if he is being chased by a pack of orcs and needs to get through the lock ASAP, he probably wants to roll and hope for a Great Success to cut down on time. If he does roll and gets a success (of any type), that earns the character an Advancement Point.

So, for your Mountaineer, I would allow for an automatic success on any Travel rolls or Athletics rolls or (maybe) Lore rolls needed to cross the mountains. But that success applies only to the mountaineer, and it is slow going. Yes, he'll make it over the mountains safely ... but it may very well take much longer than he hopes, and it won't do much for his companions. If he rolls, though, I might allow him to cut time off the journey (in the case of a high roll) or support his allies (cover a party member's failed roll with a Great success, two with an Extraordinary).

Hope that makes sense.

O

Yes it makes sense to me, and seems a valid solution as well. It seems there are many ways to skin a cat in TOR so to speak. Just whatever suits your gaming style.. no?

I am thinking in the majority of cases like this the travel phase will have been complete and this type of scenario I presented would be part of the core adventure. Negotiating obstacles has always been a big (XP Lucrative) part of our game but that was a different system.

Correct me if my thoughts are off base with this... I am in the process of rethinking set-in-our-ways gaming philosophy.

I am thinking the Travel phase would be employed to get the fellowship to the desired locale, and then once arrived, the play would switch to a more tactical mode as they scout out in more detail the area where the adventure takes place. The area's features may present more difficult terrain the group cannot simply skirt around so that's why my question was brought to forum.

If they were just traveling through the mountains to get to another locale I would likely not go into "tactical" mode, unless die rolls dictated it, and just play off of the Travel rules.

Does this make sense for TOR?

Not having played yet, all this is theoretical for me.
I appreciate all your inputs.

All,
Remember, the word L O C A T I O N cannot be typed into these forums, in any form including as part of other words. Any time you do so it is automatically removed. Try to remember to use another word or term. Either that or purposefully misspell the word (add a space or a - somewhere in the middle?) to avoid the problem.

If you want to try it, type a message and hit the Preview button. Poof! Instant vanishing act.


PS: I mention this here because you used loca-tion in at least two places in the bottom half of your post. Of course they're gone so your sentences seem a bit odd.

Venger,
Yes you are basically correct. The only thing I might add is that dropping out of a Journey into tactical due to an Eye/Hazard is instantaneous. You're journeying along and if something comes up you're instantly tactical. However, that does give your Mountaineer the opportunity to do his thing - if he isn't otherwise engaged.

Haha! I didn't know about the Locality issue! How strange

Thanks for the replies