Undertaking A Relationship

In a thread called ‘Generations’, I rambled about the following generation of characters in a TOR campaign and this is my prototype for the Undertaking.

I’ll start with a disclaimer... gender will be referred to in the following and I’m defaulting to male for the hero and female for the object of affection. I’m sure there will be other variations on this in other campaigns, but I’m sticking with this assumption to save typing and confusion.



Step 1: Finding A Partner
Before a relationship begins, the character has to find a prospective mate and this is something that can best be done during an adventure.

Damsels can be rescued! Important NPC’s met in Encounters. Not forgetting the many shopkeepers and barmaids that are interacted with.

Once the hero has found someone he’s interested in, he can move on to the next step.


Step 2: Making The First Move
This occurs during the next Fellowship Phase in which the character is in the same as his prospective mate.

Which skill should be used to woo the prospective mate depends entirely on the approach that the character uses and the nature of the object of affection.

Personality, Custom and Vocation skills seem most appropriate...

Awe is a good way to make an first impression, but won’t work forever!
Inspire ‘instills positive feelings in others’, which sounds right to me.
Persuade is another obvious choice.

Song is an obvious way to impress someone.
Courtesy can flatter the subject.
Riddle may impress them with you wit.

Craft could be used to make a gift.
Lore with your knowledge
Battle may seem an unlikely choice, but I doubt Eowyn would be impressed with flowers, so this skill may work in some cases.

You may also consider using Wisdom or Valour as an option, depending on the circumstances under which the character met his love interest.

Although I think all of the skills above have merit when initiating a relationship, they may not all be appropriate for subsequent checks. Song, Craft and Courtesy are the best skills to use to continue the relationship in my opinion.

Note: Even if the Fellowship Phase takes place in a Sanctuary, the character should not (in my opinion) get to roll twice for this!

Once the skill is chosen, the character makes a roll and if successful, has not only initiated the courtship, but can remove Shadow as if he had made a Heal Corruption check.

Make a note of the number of successes, as the relationship needs time to blossom...

If an 'eye' is rolled, something was done to offend the object of affection and I recommend adding another success (see Courtship) before the relationship progresses.

Two 'eyes' in consecutive Fellowship Phases may be enough to terminate the relationship!

Step 3: The Courtship
As I mentioned in the previous step, a single roll should not be enough to advance the relationship.

I suggest 4 or 5 successes, as this ensures at least 2 Fellowship Phases worth of wooing, but does not make it impossible task.

By the time the character has completed this step, they should be committed to the relationship and I recommend any ‘one night stands’ be considered a betrayal with an associated Shadow Point gain (3 perhaps).

Personally, I think the characters associates should also gain a Shadow Point if they are aware if the ‘indiscretion’ and do or say nothing!

If the object of affection finds out, the relationship may be over!

If the character seemed genuinely sorry, I would allow him one last check to save things, but would not grant any Shadow Point loss for that roll, as he’s just ‘making up’.

Step 4: The Engagement
Depending on how well the relationship has been going, I suggest that the engagement take place when they have between 6 and 10 successes.

At this point, short of an ‘indiscretion’ as mentioned previously, the relationship should be stable and there are no more Shadow Points to be lost through the relationship.

If there is an ‘indiscretion’ at this point, give them 4 Shadow Points, as this is ‘Oath Breaking’

Step 5: The Marriage
No skill checks here, just a ceremony, a party and a general feeling of Hope for the character and his companions.

Treat the wedding an Undertaking which grants the benefit of the Virtue, Confidence.

The Groom sees his Hope score permanently raised by 2 and is refilled to maximum.

Members of the Fellowship have 1 Hope restored (but their maximum does not increase).


And that is a lot of waffle wrapped around a few game mechanics.

Thanks to those that contributed to the ‘Generations’ thread, whose ideas I have plundered and added to my own.

I might imagine that a female PC is more likely to be courted than to court, although that might not be a firm rule.

Also, we was discussed in our recent thread on gender, I also imagine that women adventurers might well have greater difficulties in finding a partner, in that a woman who spends much of every year gallivanting around the countryside with a bunch of men might be considered a woman of ill repute.

BTW, nice work you've done on this.

The other thing we haven't discussed in any of this is the possibility that two PCs will hook up. My nephew's girlfriend, herself a veteran role-player, has recently joined our group, so who knows? Maybe they'll marry.

Garbar,

It looks very, very good. I had some suggestions regarding Step 2. I found that portion to be confusing. There were a couple of different things going on in that step and I lost the 'flow' a couple of times and had to re-read it. I tried writing this up telling you, but found the message getting very long, so I decided to show you instead. Every change (even just moving your own sentences around) is marked in red.

I added Inspire and Persuade to secondary wooing attempts. Assuming that convincing a potential mate that they can reach their goals/dreams would increase endearment.

The only other request is clarification of Horrible (2 eyes) and Catastrophic (3 eyes) Failures within a single wooing attempt. The current wording implies: That 1 or more eyes per wooing attempt increase the total number of successes required. Which implies that the only way that a romance can be terminated is by obtaining any eye result for two consecutive wooing attempts.

Whether the above is correct or not, this should be clarified to prevent confusion. Maybe Horrible Failure results in a null result? The failures cancelled the successes and the relationship stays 'as was'? Catastrophic Failure should result in termination, IMO.

Of course... keep, change or throw away suggestions as you deem (ir)relevant.


Step 2: Making The First Move
This process begins during the next Fellowship Phase in which the character is in the same as his prospective mate. The character can use any skill to try and impress them, but the character can only make one attempt per visit (even if they are in a Sanctuary). The character will need to obtain a total of 4 or 5 successes. It may take more than one visit, and wooing attempts, to gain enough successes to advance to Step 3.

Which skill should be used to woo the prospective mate depends entirely on the approach that the character uses and the persona of the object of affection. All of the skills below have merit when initiating a relationship, they may not all be appropriate for subsequent checks. Personality, Custom and Vocation skills seem most appropriate.

• Awe is a good way to make an first impression, but won’t work forever!
• Inspire ‘instills positive feelings in others’, which sounds right to me.
• Persuade is another obvious choice.
• Song is an obvious way to impress someone.
• Courtesy can flatter the subject.
• Riddle may impress them with you wit.
• Craft could be used to make a gift.
• Lore will impress with your knowledge
• Battle may seem an unlikely choice, but I doubt Eowyn would be impressed with flowers, so this skill may work in some cases.
• Depending on the circumstances under which the character met his love interest, you may also consider using Wisdom or Valour.

Song, Craft, Courtesy, Inspire and Persuade are the best skills to use to continue the relationship in my opinion.

Once the skill is chosen, the character makes a roll and if successful, has not only initiated the courtship, but can remove Shadow as if he had made a Heal Corruption check.

Make a note of the number of successes and failures on the character sheet, as the relationship needs time to blossom...

If an 'eye' is rolled, something was done to offend the object of affection and I recommend increasing the total number of successes required to advance to Step 3 before the relationship can progress.

Two 'eyes' in consecutive Fellowship Phases may be enough to terminate the relationship!

This post has been edited by Garn on Apr 16 2012, 09:48 AM

Yeah! I know it was a bit wordy, but I was trying to explain my reasoning and that may have made things a little confusing.

Does read a bit better with your edits.

Although Inspire and Persuade do seem valid, I wasn't sure.

Inspire tends to be used on groups and 'forceful orators, passionate agitators, and well loved leaders of men' doesn't seem very 'romantic'

Similarly, Persuade is more about convincing someone, which is really seduction, not courtship to my eyes.

As for the number of 'eyes' required to destroy the relationship, that is always going to be subjective. However, we're talking Tolkien here, not Game of Thrones, so I feel that the romance should be a success in the long term, which is why I'm not too worried about what it takes to fail.

Eventually, (after a bit of play testing) I may do a revised version that will just detail the game mechanics and that should clarify things.

Great work so far and I think it really fits. It also has a very Arthurian feel to it, I like it quite a bit.

Thanks Garbar for tackling so a thorny issue... and thanks to Garn for helping me understand Garbar's ideas

I was thinking about a minor addition: during the "Step 2" (or Step 3?) the Hero cannot use two times the same skill. Every Fellowship Phase the Hero must use a different skill, till the character reach the 4-5 successes needed.

Just to avoid the boring (ab)use of the same skill time over time.
A real, profound relationship tests one's mettle not only where he's strongest, but in his hidden weaknesses too.

Well done Garbar, a great effort.

My thoughts are that this should be about 'true love' and not simply about finding a relationship. Finding true love with your soulmate is going to be a character changing occurrence. Perhaps this could even be an occasion where the Character could have a 'hope focus' outside the immediate fellowship with all the conflicts of interest that could ensue.

In other words, I agree whole heartedly that once a character goes along this path that it should lead ultimately to success. Eye runes should only represent delays, not be capable of bringing it all crashing down.

A I suggested in the other post, I reckon that you might consider a shorter but more risky path to the same goal, complete with betrayals, unrequited love and the Shadow.

Garbar,
You have to take all of the stated functions of the skills with a pinch of salt once you get out of standard adventure usage. Particularly in the case of romance - a situation that may not have been considered when fine-tuning the game mechanics, or writing the skill descriptions.

I see Inspire as showing interest in and supporting those goals, dreams and endeavors that are favored by the potential mate. Persuade does imply seduction (and many of the great love stories include seduction), however I was assuming more of convincing the potential spouse that the character's "heart is true, set me a task, any task, and I will prove it." It's not the task that is vital here - it is that he has persuaded her to show some interest.

As for the eyes, I just sought clarification for multiple eye results on a single attempt. Matters of the heart are dangerous endeavors in that they bear a person's heart and soul, making them susceptible to later conflict - like multiple eyes.


Corvo,
Umm... You're welcome. But the kudos definitely have to go to Garbar as I would not have broached the subject with regards to game mechanics. I might have done this as a campaign side-story arc, narrative only, but no mechanics.


Halbarad,
I'm not dis-agreeing with the sentiment, just with the mechanics in that even in a fantasy setting True Love should not become what amounts to an extended automatic action. I cannot recall your suggested mechanics from the other thread ATM, I'll look them over in a bit. I was just trying to work within the proposed framework/mechanics.

Maybe think of it as a public declaration of love?

On the "Inspire" issue:

Inspire is the skill used in the Rally Companions task. If it can rekindle Hope, it truly speaks to the heart.

Hi Garn,

There are two quotes that spring to mind when I think about this. The first is by the Bard himself.

" the course of true love, never did run smooth."

The second is from my mother who informed me on a number of occasions,

''the girl who's for you, will not pass you by."

It is these two quotes that define how I look at this.

In following this undertaking, a character is saying 'this is the one'. A tumble in the Hay or the seduction of an innkeepers daughter to sire offspring cannot compare to this and that is why I see it as something which will ultimately be successful, because the character is also 'the one'.
However, it still takes commitment to make it work and that is why (IMO)it should be over a number of Fellowship phases. Both characters are 'in love' and thoughts of straying are furthest from their minds. Failures and eye runes should only cause delays to the inevitable as Fate/Eru has decreed it.
In the earlier thread I mentioned that there might be a shorter, but more perilous path to reaching the same goal. Following this path is the one where doubts linger, jealousy is harboured and love may be unrequited or even betrayed. I see this as being because there s a chance that you were mistaken about your soul mate. There could be shadow points and a loss of standing along this route.

I would see 'true love' in TOR as a fantastic adventure hook. True Love may be doomed to failure, but it should be as a result of the story and not the vagaries of dice rolls.

And now, I'm gonna climb down off my soap box.

And if I can just borrow that soap box for a moment....

Halbarad got there before I did, but I was at work and couldn't remember by forum password to reply.

And he uses he the Bard, whereas I'm stuck with Phil Collins who sang 'You can't hurry love' (I know, it's a cover version, but I remember the Collins version).

If you want to speed towards the marriage, that's fine, but that would not be the end of the romance, they would still have to work at the relationship.

Sometimes people marry in times of war and during other dark moments of history, but don't fall in love (or realise it's a mistake) until they have been together for a while.

So if you want rush through, go ahead, but I would not grant the Hope increase i suggested (Step 5) until the relationship was settled.

With regard to Inspire, hadn't really thought about as a public show of affection, but there is a perfect example of that in 'The Return Of The King' (the movie, don't recall it in the book)

Sauron is defeated and they are all gathering atop Minas Tirith when Arwen appears from the crowd. Aragorn kisses her in front of hundreds of people.

Not only did it show his love for her, but in game terms was an excellent use of Inspire to his people.

Still not keen on Persuade if used as the only 'romance' skill, but if used along with others it seems acceptable!

Anyone else need the soapbox?