Hi!

I'm brand new - well I've been registered a while, but hardly even been lurking about here; I might've posted something way back, but I cannot recall.

So, I recently got my copy of the core books and the LM screen. Thinking about the Tales of the wilderland collection too - I figured it was a collection of adventures that are sort of tied together? Right? Is it any good and worth the cash?

Anyway, I've been looking at this system for a while - the system seems narrative, perhaps not on par with some others, but definitely narratively oriented with some great ideas. It seems some are slightly cumbersome, or more so than they would need to, but I'm not sure as I haven't tested it yet.

So question 1: How system-heavy is this game, how much book-keeping as a LM is needed? How much book-keeping is needed for players?

I've been beta-testing the new SW rpg from FFG the last 5-6 months and I'm very impressed with their system, even if some house-rules and tweaks is needed for my group.

Question 2: How many house-rules do "you" use? What is the most common part of the game to house-rule or tweak?

Like the Edge of the Empire (swrpg by FFG) is tied to a specific time-period, but also specific area of the galaxy, TOR is at the moment tied to a time period and specific geographic area in middle earth.

Question 3: How well does this game lend itself to play in other areas, in other time periods?

I mean, it seems very group/fellowship oriented - which EotE is - which in recent years has become a good thing in my eyes. Earlier not so much. Anyway, onwards.

I used to play a lot of MERP back in the early to mid-1990s (before RMSS got hold of me), which was a great game in my opinion - perhaps not great Middle Earth and Tolkien game, but a great game for having fun as a pre-pubertal teenager. The one good thing about the line of books (well, perhaps not THE ONE good thing, but A good thing) were the material, the depths and richness of content. I have particular fond memories of reading Valar & Maiar and the treasures of middle earth book (both 2nd edition) - the treasure book being my favourite due to the histories of the various artefacts and so on. Creatures' were good too.

When ICE lost the license, the films came, and decipher did the worst rip-off plagiarist system creation to date (that I know of, except maybe D&D 3rd editions rip off of merp/rm) - what made it worse was also the fact that the system was pretty messed up. I never played much more than a few sessions due to this, but also since that game focused mainly on the film version of the story - and my group was not that Tolkien oriented in those days, I guess an adverse reaction to the films among some of them. Decipher did make some really nice maps though, still got them and will most likely use them in this game.

Now these two earlier games were based in a slightly different game base than what I've got the impression of TOR to be. More closely linked to the D&D tradition; cash (i.e. gold, silver, etc), tactical (I might have that wrong) and not so fundamentally group oriented. Stat wise too those earlier games seems more ... "detailed" - not saying I'm missing detail, but:

Question 4: How easy, if anyone has tried, is it to convert from Decipher's or Iron Crown Enterprise's middle earth games to this?

Also, on a more "superficial" note, I notice that there is no price lists for stuff and gear and weapons in the book(s) - there's some guidelines in the lake town sourcebook, but that does not cover weapons and the like.

Question 5: Has anyone "rectified" this for their own games?

I guess the buying and selling of weapons is not a normal thing in most parts of middle earth - not in the way one is used to it from D&D and other fantasy games. It could be nice with some more "value" oriented information in this sense - or do you guys think that the Treasure system works well?

I mean, I haven't tested it so I don't know. But looking at the treasure system in the core books 1 treasure ≈ 1 encumbrance, while in the lake town book 1 treasure ≈ 1 gold piece ... these two guidelines do not really fit together in my mind.

I guess the intention of an abstract treasure system is to avoid monetary book-keeping - which is in the spirit of the stories we know from middle earth, but most gamers I know would react badly to this; for some the game is all about wealth - whatever the game should be.

Anyway, many questions and thoughts, some concerns, from someone who hasn't even played the first adventure yet. Please bear that in mind, there is still much I haven't read or realised about this game yet - so I might have overlooked vital information and sentences all over the books.

So, long post, sorry about that.

Hello. Welcome to the forum!

It's an excellent book and well worth the cash. The adventures are by and large really well put together but there are also additional rules enhancements littered throughout the scenarios that are easily useful elsewhere in your game and will give you further ideas on how to expand and use the rules from the core books.

There are little sub-systems which make the game feel more complicated than it really is. Also, the (poor) organisation of the rules add to the degree of effort required to get to grips with them. I find it really easy to work with though. I wouldn't say there's much book-keeping at all but see my signature links for the PC scratch sheet - I've collected all the bits from the character sheet that vary alot within actual play. Should be of use to you.

Bought it and sold it. Just not Star Wars in my opinion - will stick with (in my opinion) my superior home-brewed system based on Dragonlance 5th Age rules or maybe convert to TOR as that would do Star Wars very easily!

I use lots. NOT because the game is broken but its brilliant to tweak and easy to expand.

I'm running a very enjoyable hobbit-only campaign set in and around the Shire and 17 years or so before the event of the War of the Ring. No problems for me but you obviously need to know the setting to understand what you want to do, etc.

Both pretty easy. I've converted ICE material and seen Decipher stuff converted and it looks fine. The trick is not to do a 'number-by-number' conversion but to get an understanding of what is trying to be done in the older game and convert the idea to TOR not the hard numbers.

There's a big fan supplement about economics somewhere, forget where, but personally I prefer the RAW.

Yeah, not a big fan of that rule as it does break down for these kind of things and high-value but small pieces of treasure. Very easy to ignore it though and only hit players with further fatigue and/or encumbrance if they are lugging around sacks/bags of gold etc.

Would suggest playing in Middle Earth isn't really the game for them, then. Even in the Hobbit the reclamation of the dwarves (including their gold) was a narrative driver to their adventure - it wasn't a focus from a 'number crunching' point of view in the same way that it is in some RPGs. Wealth in TOR (and Middle Earth) is more about the depth of a character's Wisdom, their Valour, Hope, friendship and other themes far more precious than how much 'kewl loot' your PC has.

No worries, enjoy your stay. Its a great community here.

Thanks!

I'll see about getting my grubby hands on a copy then.

1) Good, its not just me then. I'll have a look at that scratch sheet of your. Thanks.


About the swrpg: yeah, to each their own, I like it- the most Star Warsy rpg produced to date as far as I'm concerned, prefer it to the other and earlier official editions. Although there's a lot of moaning on the FFG forums by disgruntled glowstick wielding hippy-fans.
A homebrew system? Nice, I always wanted to tweak HARP SF to SW, but I haven't got the time for such work these days.


2) Yeah, I figured it wasn't because it was broken, then you'd probably play a different game? I don't know.


3) Yeah, well I was thinking more about stuff set in Gondor, Rohan, farther to the south really (the Hobbits doesn't really interest me that much, silly lot, silly place, just like Devon ). Still, basic knowledge is obvious.

4) Easy conversion is good to know, that means its worth finding those old boxes and dusting off old tomes to put in my book shelves for inspiration and conversion time.

5) You prefer RAW, ok, I'd test that first - the lake town and the encumbrance rules seems off, but I'll just have to see about that. I'll have to look around for that economy supplement though, to at least get a notion of their approach.

Yeah, I figured as much about the encumbrance stuff. I'm only wary of the treasure at the end of the long marsh intro adventure - I know that some of my players would like to stash up as much as possible, even try to go for slaughtering their way through the marsh dwellers...

Well, purist views on a setting brings us nowhere, fast. I do to a certain degree agree with you on that stance, but any game can be played by anyone - even if it bastardises the game, setting and world in the long run. To each their own, but I see no issue with the goal of an adventurer to be riches, new and bountiful riches.

Yeah, from my reading it seems you're all quite polite and nice to each other, I envy you that. Let's hope I'm disrupting it and messing up the good humour and kind attitudes around here with my unreasonable norse nature.

Hey! What's wrong with Devon! I'm in Devon for university and it's luvely

Not going to be able to resist this:

He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

- Gandalf to Saruman.



I wouldn't agree with you on this. Briefly, I'd say this kind of philosophy is why lots of gamers have problems with the games they play - often they are playing a game not best suited to their needs and/or forced to do something it isn't really designed to do. I'm of the opinion that you work out what you want and then what you need (they aren't always the same things), and you then pick a game system to fit and deliver on those requirements.

How's the rice pudding?

Yummy stuff. Nutmeg on the top. Luverly.

Oh nothing, lived there for three years, in Totnes (Dartington really) ... was nice, but hey, nothing wrong, but silly

I agree with your ideal, philosophy or whatever you'd call it, at least in principle. But there's more to it in my mind.

That said, while having ideals is nice and trying to fit into a setting, more than breaking a setting to fit it the group, is a better approach - it is, in my mind, elitist to claim that this is the reason "lots of gamers have problems ..." - I'd say this is perhaps one of them, but there are many others (and sometimes games and settings needs to be tweaked to fit a game, often I'd say in my experience).

Still I don't think - in this case - that having motivations oriented on riches, fame and the like is incompatible with TOR, I'd like to know why though, if you think so - without abstract and subjective interpretations of how one sees the universe of Tolkien (granted you can't avoid subjectivity, but I hope you understand what I mean). What is it, if anything, about this game (system), mechanically, conceptually and substantially (objectively in a more judicial sense) that does not lend itself for treasure hunting, fame seeking and desire for wealth?

TOR is obviously designed for a type of game in mind, but breaking with this more or less vague orientation towards a certain type of game does not necessarily break the game, or premisses for enjoyment. As the first replier said, he has tweaked and made many house-rules, which is changing the game, the system - to better suit his needs. Not necessarily breaking it.

Not really, I'm speaking from my experience and years of playing systems that didn't give me what I wanted. I don't have that problem now as I've realised the issues, pitfalls, what to look out for and how to address them.

That was me and they aren't the same things. I was replying to a specific comment you made about bastardising the game, that's all. So, I'm not getting into these kind of further discussions as I've had them too many times before, thanks. I stated in my previous post 'briefly' and I'm keeping to that. Ta.

Heh, I see that now. Whoops. I blame long day in court.

I guess well just have to disagree on this, as my experience differs from yours.

(In some ways at least: most games can be made to function well with me and my groups' desires and needs - with enough tweaks and house-rules at least, and in the "good old days" alternatives and options were fewer than today, up here at least - so we learnt to make do and change).

Welcome!

I want to second Rich's response & recommend that you purchase Tales from Wilderland if you intend to run a game. They've done a beautiful job of capturing the feel of Middle-earth & you'll find some great ideas for characters & plots.

Thanks, its sort of decided, just need the funds now. Amazon basket is filled with needed stuff, like Risk Society: towards a new modernity and Tales from Wilderland.