Powered by Invision Power Board


  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> Without Armor, But With Helm.
LukeZ
Posted: Sep 3 2011, 08:49 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 69
Member No.: 481
Joined: 8-October 08



A Weary character without Armor, with and Helm, with Body 7 and spending a Point of Hope on a Protection roll will roll a Feat die + 4 (Helm) + 7 (Body) to negate the wound?
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Narl
Posted: Sep 3 2011, 09:14 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 49
Member No.: 1282
Joined: 6-October 10



Looks correct to me. You don't need to spend the point of Hope until after you roll though.
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
caul
Posted: Sep 3 2011, 09:59 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 147
Member No.: 518
Joined: 1-January 09



Blocking with your head...nice.

Is a G an auto success with Protection rolls...I don't remember...


--------------------
"I never ask a man what his business is, for it never interests me. What I ask him about are his thoughts and dreams." H. P. Lovecraft

The Laundry Mission Generator Suite

"Faithless is he who says farewell when the road darkens." Gimli, The Fellowship of the Ring

TOR Character Builder Assistant | TOR Loremaster Tools
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Skywalker
Posted: Sep 3 2011, 10:58 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 800
Member No.: 46
Joined: 24-September 07



QUOTE (caul @ Sep 4 2011, 01:59 AM)
Is a G an auto success with Protection rolls...I don't remember...

Yep. G is for all rolls.


--------------------
“There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something. ... You certainly usually find something if you look, but it is not always quite the something you were after."
- Thorin Oakenshield

Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Wightbred
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 12:43 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 37
Member No.: 1833
Joined: 19-August 11



Interesting idea. I assume no one would actually go sans armour and just a helm given the Hope cost of this approach and lack of fictional sense.

It do agree that the helm bonus being unaffected by being Weary is an interesting feature. I always thought the Fatigue cost of a helm is high per point of protection, but I may have underestimated them.
Mini ProfilePM
Top
LukeZ
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 06:03 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 69
Member No.: 481
Joined: 8-October 08



QUOTE (Wightbred @ Sep 4 2011, 04:43 AM)
Interesting idea. I assume no one would actually go sans armour and just a helm given the Hope cost of this approach and lack of fictional sense.

It do agree that the helm bonus being unaffected by being Weary is an interesting feature. I always thought the Fatigue cost of a helm is high per point of protection, but I may have underestimated them.

It seems strange to me that Armors are less efficient if you are Weary, while Helms dont.
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
thriddle
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 06:56 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 96
Member No.: 1862
Joined: 29-August 11



To avoid this effect, I guess you could houserule that a helm adds 1 die of protection rather than 4 pts.
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Garbar
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 07:25 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 407
Member No.: 1772
Joined: 8-August 11



QUOTE (LukeZ @ Sep 4 2011, 10:03 AM)
It seems strange to me that Armors are less efficient if you are Weary, while Helms dont.

I thought it weird that armour is less effective when weary, but Francesco was quite insistent that it was correct in another thread.

The assumption being, that if weary, you are less mobile and easier to hit or you opponent can find a weak spot (the arm pit for example).

Although the mobility issue may apply with a helmet, they less vulnerable to weak spots, so I'd leave the rule as it stands... but I might give the character that is a 'deflecting blows with his head' a lot of headaches wink.gif
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
LukeZ
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 08:36 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 69
Member No.: 481
Joined: 8-October 08



QUOTE (Garbar @ Sep 4 2011, 11:25 AM)
QUOTE (LukeZ @ Sep 4 2011, 10:03 AM)
It seems strange to me that Armors are less efficient if you are Weary, while Helms dont.

I thought it weird that armour is less effective when weary, but Francesco was quite insistent that it was correct in another thread.

The assumption being, that if weary, you are less mobile and easier to hit or you opponent can find a weak spot (the arm pit for example).

Although the mobility issue may apply with a helmet, they less vulnerable to weak spots, so I'd leave the rule as it stands... but I might give the character that is a 'deflecting blows with his head' a lot of headaches wink.gif

But a weary character with no armor and only an helm has A LOT of weak spots (his entire body)... still his protection roll will not suffer because of this.
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Doc_Nova
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 10:00 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 16
Member No.: 1776
Joined: 8-August 11



My initial thought on this is that this approach is gaming from a purely mechanistic point-of-view; something I am exceedingly lucky to avoid with my current group who, mostly, plays to story and theme over mechanics. As such, the other players at the table would laugh at the idea.

Futher thought on it, however, and I could see this as an approach, but, when comparing the general weapons and TNs of the Shadow-foe's weapons against the general protection rating provided in this manner, you're going to have (depending, of course, on the amount of combat in your game) a Wounded, Miserable, or Dead character in short order. Granted, others may be Weary, but that, by comparison, is quickly recovered, whereas Wounds persist until fully healed, Hope returns at a very deliberate and slow rate, and dead is, well, dead.

So, it is an approach to defense, but not one based on long-term survival. It is also done to avoid one of the easier forms of recoverable "damage".

Doc
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
thriddle
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 10:18 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 96
Member No.: 1862
Joined: 29-August 11



QUOTE (thriddle @ Sep 4 2011, 10:56 AM)
To avoid this effect, I guess you could houserule that a helm adds 1 die of protection rather than 4 pts.

Having thought about this some more, I still like it, and it seems to meet Luke's objections. Numerically it's almost equivalent - 3.5 vs 4 on average - and it means that helms suffer from Weariness just as mail does.

On the other hand, I'm sure this idea must have occurred to the designers. Anyone got any thoughts on why they would have rejected this option? Thoughts from the actual designers welcome, of course biggrin.gif
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
LukeZ
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 10:26 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 69
Member No.: 481
Joined: 8-October 08



QUOTE (Doc_Nova @ Sep 4 2011, 02:00 PM)
My initial thought on this is that this approach is gaming from a purely mechanistic point-of-view; something I am exceedingly lucky to avoid with my current group who, mostly, plays to story and theme over mechanics. As such, the other players at the table would laugh at the idea.

Futher thought on it, however, and I could see this as an approach, but, when comparing the general weapons and TNs of the Shadow-foe's weapons against the general protection rating provided in this manner, you're going to have (depending, of course, on the amount of combat in your game) a Wounded, Miserable, or Dead character in short order. Granted, others may be Weary, but that, by comparison, is quickly recovered, whereas Wounds persist until fully healed, Hope returns at a very deliberate and slow rate, and dead is, well, dead.

So, it is an approach to defense, but not one based on long-term survival. It is also done to avoid one of the easier forms of recoverable "damage".

Doc

Mine was an extreme example.
The question is:
"Why the Protection bonus of an Helm is not affected by Weariness while the Protection bonus of a Leather Shirt is? (and both leave unprotected spots)"

It seems strange to me.
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Blind Guardian
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 10:37 AM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 43
Member No.: 1817
Joined: 17-August 11



You can(if you like) divide the protection given by a helmet by two if the character is weary... et voila!
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
Garbar
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 12:09 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 407
Member No.: 1772
Joined: 8-August 11



QUOTE (LukeZ @ Sep 4 2011, 02:26 PM)
The question is:
"Why the Protection bonus of an Helm is not affected by Weariness while the Protection bonus of a Leather Shirt is? (and both leave unprotected spots)"

It seems strange to me.

The simple answer is this... it's your game, so if you don't like a rule... change it!
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
eldath
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 12:22 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 109
Member No.: 1775
Joined: 8-August 11



QUOTE (LukeZ @ Sep 4 2011, 12:36 PM)
QUOTE (Garbar @ Sep 4 2011, 11:25 AM)
QUOTE (LukeZ @ Sep 4 2011, 10:03 AM)
It seems strange to me that Armors are less efficient if you are Weary, while Helms dont.

I thought it weird that armour is less effective when weary, but Francesco was quite insistent that it was correct in another thread.

The assumption being, that if weary, you are less mobile and easier to hit or you opponent can find a weak spot (the arm pit for example).

Although the mobility issue may apply with a helmet, they less vulnerable to weak spots, so I'd leave the rule as it stands... but I might give the character that is a 'deflecting blows with his head' a lot of headaches wink.gif

But a weary character with no armor and only an helm has A LOT of weak spots (his entire body)... still his protection roll will not suffer because of this.

Don't forget that this system is not into the detailed rules. A helmet gives you protection, if you are not wearing any other armour then you are guaranteed to fail a protection test as even the lowest injury number is 12, you have just too many unarmoured places to being wounded. You would have to have an attribute of 8 in order to successfully avoid injury.
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
caul
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 01:16 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 147
Member No.: 518
Joined: 1-January 09



QUOTE (eldath @ Sep 4 2011, 11:22 AM)
...if you are not wearing any other armour then you are guaranteed to fail a protection test as even the lowest injury number is 12, you have just too many unarmoured places to being wounded. You would have to have an attribute of 8 in order to successfully avoid injury.

Actually this is not correct. You can pass the Protection test caused by any weapon by rolling the G rune. Narratively, I see this as meaning that you don't need armour, but it certainly ups your chances...


--------------------
"I never ask a man what his business is, for it never interests me. What I ask him about are his thoughts and dreams." H. P. Lovecraft

The Laundry Mission Generator Suite

"Faithless is he who says farewell when the road darkens." Gimli, The Fellowship of the Ring

TOR Character Builder Assistant | TOR Loremaster Tools
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
eldath
Posted: Sep 4 2011, 04:33 PM
Report PostQuote Post





Group: Members
Posts: 109
Member No.: 1775
Joined: 8-August 11



QUOTE (caul @ Sep 4 2011, 05:16 PM)
Actually this is not correct. You can pass the Protection test caused by any weapon by rolling the G rune. Narratively, I see this as meaning that you don't need armour, but it certainly ups your chances...

While it is true enough that the G rune is automatic success, it doesn't mean that you don't need armour. You can't rely on rolling G you are just as likely to roll the eye. That said, it is true enough that you get the feat die result. So, it was a little bit of an exageration that someone only having a helm is guaranteed to fail.

E
Mini ProfilePMEmail Poster
Top
1 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
1 Members: Garn

Topic Options Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 


Google
 
Web cubicle7.clicdev.com


[ Script Execution time: 0.0432 ]   [ 15 queries used ]   [ GZIP Enabled ]   [ Server Load: 4.69 ]

Web Statistics