Great Orc protection roll

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Deadmanwalking
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Re: Great Orc protection roll

Post by Deadmanwalking » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:55 am

Corvo wrote:I agree in general term with Mirkwoodfalcon's analysis.

Nevertheless, I want to note that "4d weary" doesn't have the same average as 2d: if, in average, two dies fail to give any bonus, it means that the other two dies have rolled 4-6 (average 5), much more than the average result of a d6 (3,5).
As a general rule, the average of a d6 is 3,5,
while the average of a "weary d6" is 2,5

So, the average armour roll of a Great Orc, while weary, is around 22... :?
Well, yeah, but the average is misleading on Weary, because what Weary does is make things much more swingy. If three dice are 3 or lower(not that uncommon), his Protection is 11-13+Feat Die. And if all four roll 3 or less...that's 7+Feat Die and that's all. Those results are almost 1/3 of their Protection rolls falling under that category. Combine with some low Feat die rolls on 2 dice at 0 results and you've got something close to half of rolls coming in under 18.
Glorelendil wrote:
bluejay wrote:Nice!

Well it's about getting a lot of piercing blows or just getting lucky. In the last game of DoM my wife's elf killed a mountain troll in her opening volley with her woodland bow so those lucky moments do happen.
Two pierces, both of which he failed his protection test, in the opening volley?

Yeah, that's low odds...
Well, not quite so low if making Called Shots.

Angelalex242
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Re: Great Orc protection roll

Post by Angelalex242 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:05 am

Nonetheless, the elf who pulled that off should get at least a point of standing, maybe even 2 or 3 for that, and be given the surname 'Trollslayer'

Deadmanwalking
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Re: Great Orc protection roll

Post by Deadmanwalking » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:08 am

Angelalex242 wrote:Nonetheless, the elf who pulled that off should get at least a point of standing, maybe even 2 or 3 for that, and be given the surname 'Trollslayer'
Only if anyone important is there to see it. Nobody will believe it otherwise.

Angelalex242
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Re: Great Orc protection roll

Post by Angelalex242 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:13 am

Either that, or declare her bow is actually the famous magical bow 'Trolldoom' with Troll Bane, Superior Keen, and Superior Fell qualities :mrgreen:

Angelalex242
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Re: Great Orc protection roll

Post by Angelalex242 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:55 am

That's what woodland bow does.

You get an extra volley. Niftiest thing Mirkwood Elves get, really.

bluejay
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Re: Great Orc protection roll

Post by bluejay » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:05 am

Ah yes forgot to mention she used Stinging Arrow for both shots. My group don't run from two mountain trolls. They slew the other one in a couple of rounds thanks to a hound of Mirkwood making it Weary and the Beorning wielding a spear of foe slaying against orcs and trolls.

Deadmanwalking you are right that Weary does make things more swingy however the chances of rolling three zero results on 4 dice is still only 1 in 4. Sure that's not so uncommon but even then with 1d + feat die + 7 remaining they can still hit 16 fairly easily.

Edit: fixed my maths!
James Semple, occasional composer of role playing music

Corvo
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Re: Great Orc protection roll

Post by Corvo » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:17 am

bluejay wrote:Nice!

Well it's about getting a lot of piercing blows or just getting lucky. In the last game of DoM my wife's elf killed a mountain troll in her opening volley with her woodland bow so those lucky moments do happen.
I agree. Despite Glorelendil's awesome munchkiness (was him? ;) ), I remain convinced that the Great Orc is a wrecking tool straight out from Melkor's nightmares: the beast need just average dies to be almost immortal!

...and sooner or later my players are bound to meet one :lol:

Deadmanwalking
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Re: Great Orc protection roll

Post by Deadmanwalking » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:34 am

bluejay wrote:Ah yes forgot to mention she used Stinging Arrow for both shots. My group don't run from two mountain trolls. They slew the other one in a couple of rounds thanks to a hound of Mirkwood making it Weary and the Beorning wielding a spear of foe slaying against orcs and trolls.
Those certainly all help. :)
bluejay wrote:Deadmanwalking you are right that Weary does make things more swingy however the chances of rolling three zero results on 4 dice is still only 1 in 4.
Correct, but the chances that all four come up 0s is also 1/16. So that's 5/16 total, and almost a third. As I said. And then add in low Feat die rolls combined with 2 dice coming up 0s...and the odds get pretty good.
bluejay wrote:Sure that's not so uncommon but even then with 1d + feat die + 7 remaining they can still hit 16 fairly easily.
Well, sure, but if 16 is the highest Injury number you're throwing at a Great Orc...well, you're not exactly likely to succeed. Great Spears and Great Bow can both throw 18s reliably if made Fell (which they should be), and that leaves aside actual high Injury weapons.

bluejay
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Re: Great Orc protection roll

Post by bluejay » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:44 am

Well it isn't really a problem for my team. By the end of DoM the Barding was using a Dwarven longsword that was superior fell meaning that even one handed (with his valour of 6) it has an injury rating of 22!
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bluejay
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Re: Great Orc protection roll

Post by bluejay » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:04 am

But a very good point about how much the probability swings once the opponent gets Weary.

When I ran the game at Dragonmeet (with beginning characters) I equated fighting a troll to trying to take down a rhino or equivalent. You would pick the right tools for the job (like spears).

In fact I think that's one of the best aspect of the game, some build/weapon combos are great for dealing lots of Endurance damage (for instance a dwarf with Old Hatred and a grievous mattock against orcs or a Woodman with a Shepherds Great Bow), others are great for consistently Wounding lightly armoured opponents (Wood Elf and Hobbit Archers are classics here but even guys with keen regular spears can be effective at this) and then you get the builds for trollslaying and dealing high injury (Woodmen with Splitting Axe, Elves with Bitter Spear, Bardings with the Dalish Longbow, Beornings with Giant Slaying Spears, Dwarves with Great Axes and preferably all fell weapons).

Of course once you get up there with high valour and then find a good enchanted weapon it definitely changes things.
James Semple, occasional composer of role playing music

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