Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

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Angelalex242
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Angelalex242 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:11 pm

The trouble with that is...the White Council kicked Sauron himself out of Dol Guldur. How much of that was 'all according to plan' from Sauron's point of view is debatable, but still, he either got driven out or let himself be driven out, and the team doing so was Elrond/Galadriel/Saruman/Gandalf.

Glorelendil
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Glorelendil » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:43 pm

Angelalex242 wrote:The trouble with that is...the White Council kicked Sauron himself out of Dol Guldur. How much of that was 'all according to plan' from Sauron's point of view is debatable, but still, he either got driven out or let himself be driven out, and the team doing so was Elrond/Galadriel/Saruman/Gandalf.
Do you mean that their Shadow points can't be keeping them in their safe refuges because this is a counter example?

If so, I don't think anybody is suggesting they never go, or they can't go, but they avoid doing so. It took a long time before Gandalf convinced anyone to do so (partly because of Saruman, true, but Galadriel and Elrond didn't vote against him). Then what did they do afterwards? Retreat to Lorien and Rivendell.

I find it very easy to attribute the sadness and reclusiveness of most elves to their Shadow scores. (Except Glorfindel...he's so badass he's never failed a corruption check.)
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Falenthal
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Falenthal » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:27 pm

Glorelendil wrote: If so, I don't think anybody is suggesting they never go, or they can't go, but they avoid doing so.
Exactly what I meant. And what the mechanic created by Francesco represents.
Glorelendil wrote: I find it very easy to attribute the sadness and reclusiveness of most elves to their Shadow scores. (Except Glorfindel...he's so badass he's never failed a corruption check.)
I think you mixed it up, Elfcrush... errr, Glorelendil: the Shadow has Glorfindel points.

Angelalex242
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Angelalex242 » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:50 am

...Hmmm.

Well, of the White Council...

Saruman obviously has a metric ton of Shadow Points.
Gandalf is either immune to Shadow Points, or the Red Ring of Fire Narya makes him immune to shadow points, because unlike the rest of the council, he never stays in a haven.
Elrond, despite holding Vilya, is quite content to chill in Rivendell
Galadriel, holding Nenya, is equally content to chill in Lothlorien.

...I guess I'm wondering if Gandalf is immune because of his ring, or if he's immune for some other reason. It can't be the fact he's a Maia, because Saruman is obviously susceptible, and Radagast is a few cards short of a full deck.

Majestic
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Majestic » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:29 am

I think it's pretty clear that Gandalf simply spends his Fellowship Phases (which he clearly takes, as he visits Havens) getting rid of his Shadow Points! :)
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Angelalex242
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Angelalex242 » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:46 am

If the Shadow were easily overcome by simply spending enough time in a haven to get rid of them, all temporary Shadow for everyone eventually hits 0. After all, what else is Elrond or Galadriel going to do?

Saruman clearly doesn't bother, as he's been subjected to misery and madness 3 or 4 times already.

He obviously hits his 5th Madness sometime when he got the bright idea of calling himself 'many colors' and turns to Mordor.

Terisonen
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Terisonen » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:09 pm

Angelalex242 wrote:...Hmmm.

Well, of the White Council...

Saruman obviously has a metric ton of Shadow Points.
Gandalf is either immune to Shadow Points, or the Red Ring of Fire Narya makes him immune to shadow points, because unlike the rest of the council, he never stays in a haven.
Elrond, despite holding Vilya, is quite content to chill in Rivendell
Galadriel, holding Nenya, is equally content to chill in Lothlorien.

...I guess I'm wondering if Gandalf is immune because of his ring, or if he's immune for some other reason. It can't be the fact he's a Maia, because Saruman is obviously susceptible, and Radagast is a few cards short of a full deck.
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Rich H
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Rich H » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:49 pm

Angelalex242 wrote:If the Shadow were easily overcome by simply spending enough time in a haven to get rid of them, all temporary Shadow for everyone eventually hits 0. After all, what else is Elrond or Galadriel going to do?
You're not comparing like-for-like here. High Elves work away their accrued Shadow in a different way to other characters, due to the way it effects their Common Skills is the in-game reason as to why, within the literature, they seldom venture from their Havens. We have no idea how Shadow is worked down by Gandalf or Saruman so to think that it is the same as those elves is likely a fallacy - there would probably be some other mechanic for such characters but it doesn't really matter as they are NPCs, and importantly have no PC equivalent, so it doesn't matter how they function mechanically - the LM does what he wants with them.
TOR resources thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62
TOR miniatures thread: viewtopic.php?t=885

Fellowship of the Free Tale of Years: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8318

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