Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

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Majestic
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Majestic » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:22 pm

I'd never thought of it that way before, Falanthal. I figure a person who's been around for a couple of hundred years, even if they're young (for their kind), it still means they've got a couple of hundred years of experience.

In my group we've got two Elves of Mirkwood, one about 120 and the other really young (I don't think he's defined how young). They're both Scholars, but after that they differ quite a bit. The older one comes across as extremely wise, and is always talking to animals, listening to a babbling brook, etc. (aided, no doubt, by the fact that he's played by the oldest player in the group). The younger one (run by the youngest player) doesn't do any of those things, and is much more reserved and quiet.

Last adventure, when the PCs arrived in Beorn's Hall, the dogs barked and yelped when the company came through the gate. The older Elf was not present, and so our Hobbit turned to the younger, quieter Elf and asked what the dogs were saying? The younger Elf just looked at him strangely and said "I have no idea." :lol:
Tale of Years for a second, lower-level group (in the same campaign).

Falenthal
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Falenthal » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:24 pm

It's nice to hear how players give such a personality to their characters, even when both are Scholar Elves. The moment you described had to be really funny. :D
Majestic wrote:I'd never thought of it that way before, Falanthal. I figure a person who's been around for a couple of hundred years, even if they're young (for their kind), it still means they've got a couple of hundred years of experience.
My idea is that "years" means something different for a human than for an elf. A human passes from being a child to being a nearly grown man in probably a year or two. My view is that an elf can spent the same amount of time just learning a song and how to pronounce right every word.

On the other hand, I wouldn't look bad at an optional rule that allowed starting characters to begin with one Shadow Point (not more than one, probably) in exchange for some benefit. Of course, it should be tied to the background history of the character: a hunter that discovers some cruel group of orcs gathering near his village and, full of fear of what might become of his comrades and family, becomes a Warden; a student who reads about ancient powers and, tempted by it, becomes an outdoors Scholar; a guard that wants vengeance because his family was killed and becomes an angry Slayer; and so on...
Such a rule reminds me of the Star Wars RPG, where characters could begin with one Dark Side Point at the exchange for one extra Force Point.
In TOR, I don't know if getting one or more extra Hope Points would really be the best option.
Maybe getting one Permanent Shadow Point in exchange for some extra Experience at character creation (maybe 4, allowing to raise Valour or Wisdom from rank 1 to rank 2, or a Weapon Skill from rank 1 to 2)?
After all, you've seen/read/experienced things others your age haven't.

Angelalex242
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Angelalex242 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:45 am

Except...the really powerful elves (and Peter Jackson elves) do not seem to suffer from any particular detriment for their advanced skill levels. Most of the truly powerful elves in Rivendell and Lorien do not suffer from any notable Shadow.

It isn't fair, but it's not supposed to be...Tolkien wasn't worried about gameplay balance when he made his world.

Majestic
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Majestic » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:14 am

You know, that's another area that I think C7/Francesco really nailed with this game: the Elves aren't overpowered Jedi that make the other cultures feel like ants beneath their boots.

I'm not one of those that bashes the Decipher game (I actually enjoyed it very much), but the Elves (especially the Noldor) were way more powerful than the other PC cultures.

Sure, that fits the Professor's writings. But when you're making a game, having some semblance of balance really helps. TOR makes the Elves still cool and fun without being overpowered or having them outclass everyone else.
Tale of Years for a second, lower-level group (in the same campaign).

Angelalex242
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Angelalex242 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:45 am

Realistically, other then the Dunedain (cause Numenorians were equally badass), the elves just conquer everything.

Power goes something like 'Caliquendi>Noldor/Dunedain>Sindar/Dwarves>Humans
Wildcard:Hobbits. While they might not be the best warriors, they own everyone including Caliquendi at resisting evil.

Falenthal
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Falenthal » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:11 pm

Angelalex242 wrote:Except...the really powerful elves do not seem to suffer from any particular detriment for their advanced skill levels. Most of the truly powerful elves in Rivendell and Lorien do not suffer from any notable Shadow.
... except when they go out of their havens and feel the pity of the world that they knew, now gone and forgotten, scarred by war and humans.

I think it's very interesting to try representing in game terms why someone can be very powerful, but not want to leave a house (Rivendell) or a forest (Lorien). What are they scared of? Why do Elrond, Galadriel, Glorfindel, etc not go to confront the Shadow?

Francesco did a nice job making the Noldo suffer more from the Shadow, but allowing them to ignore it when in a haven.

Rich H
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Rich H » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:47 pm

Falenthal wrote:Francesco did a nice job making the Noldo suffer more from the Shadow, but allowing them to ignore it when in a haven.
The only thing I'd disagree with you on here is that I think it was a stroke of genius, not just a nice job! ;) ... That mechanic on it's own should win awards never mind all the other cool stuff in TOR. Inspired.
TOR resources thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62
TOR miniatures thread: viewtopic.php?t=885

Fellowship of the Free Tale of Years: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8318

bluejay
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by bluejay » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:20 pm

Couldn't agree more, Rich! One of the many, many things I love about this game is how so many of the choices in the book reflect mechanical advantages in the system.
James Semple, occasional composer of role playing music

Falenthal
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by Falenthal » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:00 pm

Falenthal wrote: On the other hand, I wouldn't look bad at an optional rule that allowed starting characters to begin with one Shadow Point (not more than one, probably) in exchange for some benefit.
Angelalex242 wrote:Except...the really powerful elves (and Peter Jackson elves) do not seem to suffer from any particular detriment for their advanced skill levels. Most of the truly powerful elves in Rivendell and Lorien do not suffer from any notable Shadow.

It isn't fair, but it's not supposed to be...Tolkien wasn't worried about gameplay balance when he made his world.
Angelalex, I don't know if your concern was in response to my proposal of house-rule, but just to be specific, I meant any culture, not only elves. The pregenerated character "The Bride" could be a very good example of someone who's background allows for a Shadow Point even before starting the first adventure. In fact, it is this "first Shadow Point" what makes her to go on adventure and leave her hometown.

bluejay
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Re: Question: Elvish longevity vs. other races?

Post by bluejay » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:25 pm

There is at least some precedent for starting with a Shadow Point thanks to the Lesser Ring Cultural Reward of the High Elves of Rivendell. If this were picked as the starting reward of a character with 2 points of Valour then they would start the game with a Shadow Point.
James Semple, occasional composer of role playing music

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