tips on LMing in a second language?

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kimbo
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tips on LMing in a second language?

Post by kimbo » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:26 am

Hi,
are there are any LMs or players with experience of playing in a language with non-native speakers?
I would really appreciate any tips, ideas or experiences that would help me create a good play experience.

I am a first time LM (but GM exp in other systems) planning a TOR game for first time players.
It will be in English. The players have English as a second or third language. Their language level is good (upper intermediate - B2 for those familiar with CEF) but of course not as nuanced as at native level.

I have some ideas but I am interested in the experience of the multicultural TOR community.

Thank you.
K

zedturtle
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Re: tips on LMing in a second language?

Post by zedturtle » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:21 am

I'm aware of (but have never actually participated in) roleplaying being used in ESL situations to promote fluency.

One thing that I've told my players before is that we are telling a story about what happened, not necessarily recreating it blow for blow or line for line. Meaning that is the player stumbles for words or uses something that would be anachronistic or otherwise 'off' we don't penalise the player for that... the character is really as eloquent as their stats indicate, it's just that tellers of the story had a temporary hiccup in retelling the story.

Telling your players something similar might help alleviate 'I'll mess this all up' concerns.
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kimbo
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Re: tips on LMing in a second language?

Post by kimbo » Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:22 pm

Thanks for that zedturtle,
i'll take that one on board... emphasise substance (what they mean) being more important than form.

I am equally aware of the issue of my use of language causing them to stumble, so to speak, or fall out of emersion (e.g. WTF is the LM talking about?)

shipwreck
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Re: tips on LMing in a second language?

Post by shipwreck » Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:38 pm

Man, I'm kind of excited by this discussion. I am an ESL teacher by trade and I use word games sometimes, but I am very interested in using RPGs. I don't know if I could get my kids behind it but it seems like a grand opportunity for fluency.

Anyways, I don't have any specific suggestions at present except maybe keep your language as contemporary as possible. Stay away from, when possible, much Tolkienese. We all love the antique style he used by it may be much for English learners.

Let me think on this and I will reply if something helpful comes to mind.
Elfcrusher wrote:But maybe the most important difference is that in D&D the goal is to build wtfpwn demi-god characters. In TOR the goal is to stay alive long enough to tell a good story.

Valarian
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Re: tips on LMing in a second language?

Post by Valarian » Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:47 pm

I have had several non-native speakers in games. I've never really made any adjustment in my narration for them, except to rephrase a description or to explain a term when asked. Personally I have been impressed by the level of fluency of my players, and a little ashamed at my own second language abilities.
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kimbo
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Re: tips on LMing in a second language?

Post by kimbo » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:02 pm

shipwreck
glad for any input from an ESL teacher.

Val
under normal circumstances I could expect it to go similarly to your experience. However they are not just new to TOR but RPGs generally. I just dont want it to end up feeling like a language class (for me or them). :(

K

Terisonen
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Re: tips on LMing in a second language?

Post by Terisonen » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:53 pm

Ah ah, what a good, an excellent idea! For there is nothing like willfullness to teach a language with such an incentive like pleasure... :)

For myself I start reading English when my favorites RPG was all but plain english. I made amazing improvement in a few weeks... :lol:
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Glorelendil
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Re: tips on LMing in a second language?

Post by Glorelendil » Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:40 pm

I'm not sure this is useful for the OP's question, but this discussion reminds me of translations of Jabberwocky:
http://www76.pair.com/keithlim/jabberwo ... nslations/

Since Jabberwocky has a lot of made up words, it raises the question of "how do you translate an invented word?"

Some of the translations are brilliant; the writers invent their own new words that have some of the texture and evocativeness in their language that the C.S. Lewis words had in English, while sounding totally different.
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shipwreck
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Re: tips on LMing in a second language?

Post by shipwreck » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:32 pm

Glorelendil wrote:I'm not sure this is useful for the OP's question, but this discussion reminds me of translations of Jabberwocky:
http://www76.pair.com/keithlim/jabberwo ... nslations/

Since Jabberwocky has a lot of made up words, it raises the question of "how do you translate an invented word?"

Some of the translations are brilliant; the writers invent their own new words that have some of the texture and evocativeness in their language that the C.S. Lewis words had in English, while sounding totally different.
Am I remembering correctly that Tolkien got mad when his Swedish (I think) translator messed up a bunch of his invented words?
Elfcrusher wrote:But maybe the most important difference is that in D&D the goal is to build wtfpwn demi-god characters. In TOR the goal is to stay alive long enough to tell a good story.

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