[Actual Play] Tales from the Wild experiences and questions

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Dawngreeter
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:48 am

[Actual Play] Tales from the Wild experiences and questions

Post by Dawngreeter » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:32 am

Hi everyone. I have a lot of experience with RPGs both as a player and a GM for close to 20 years now. I'm mostly obsessed with both incarnation of World of Darkness, but honestly The One Ring is probably my best (and completely accidental) find this year. I love the system and, more than that, I love it because it reminded me how great Tolkien's world really is - a fact the movies did their best to obscure. So, I talked my usual group of miscreants into giving TOR a shot. I think we had a very enjoyable first session, but we also encountered a number of issues that I thought best to consult the online community in order to resolve. This will also act as a an actual play report of sorts, so I hope I won't be too boring.

The adventure we played was the first one from the Tales from the Wild. First off, it seems to be a pretty great way to introduce players to an ongoing chronicle. Conceptually, the players enjoyed it and we felt it had just enough mystery (the thing from the well, weird memory wiping water) to set the proper tone - yes, it's classic fantasy and no, it's not just about killing orcs and wargs. But there were also some issues.

My wife played an Elf and she felt slightly annoyed that the fact her character had spent past 250 years living in Mirkwood accounted for very little and she seemed as clueless as a Barding who hardly set foot in the forest. This was mostly brought to surface by the fact there was an ancient fortress some five days travel away from the elven city that she had no idea existed. She felt that was practically their back yard, and located very close to the elf path. In hindsight, I probably should have let her roll something to see if she actually did know about it on account of her having Mirkwood-lore, but it didn't occur to me right that moment and she didn't explicitly invoke it to remind me. So, lesson learned.

Another issue came up due to the fact that we have just three players. Travel mechanics assume at least four companions to fill the four basic roles. In this instance, I went with an NPC (Baldor) acting as a travel guide but that won't work for the next adventure. Does anyone have a good solution for this?

One amusing conundrum happened when the party wanted to return back to the elven city after Baldor lost his memory. They felt it was safer for him that way, rather than to continue the remaining 3/4 of the way. Baldor insisted they proceed, they kept objecting and then I informed them as a GM that they won't be going back, which they accepted. It wasn't a huge issue, but I didn't want to deal with improvising on the first session where it was clear basic mechanics were enough to deal with. Still, I thought their reaction was actually pretty reasonable and if I ever ran this adventure again, I'd make sure Baldor lost his memory when they were closer to the exit so that it seems more logical to just continue on their way.

Encounters are something we're still not comfortable with. There are specific skills that should be used which players still aren't familiar with and the introduction-interaction stages don't seem to come naturally. It turns out two out of three characters don't have Courtesy so that almost means that they can't participate in any of the interactions. This seemed particularly absurd when they met the hermit in the hollow tree and only the Barding noble passed the Courtesy roll. Furthermore, what comes naturally to both players and myself is to just engage in conversation in-character and call for rolls when something non-trivial is taking place. The game seems to want us to just keep making rolls in order to communicate. As written, Baldor wouldn't talk about his past unless a roll was made. This seems odd. Also, the elf (Lindor? something like that) that wouldn't let non-elves out of the basement unless three specific rolls were made, song among them, was a very strange talking companion. You have three adventurers in a basement, one of them an elf, and they are trying to talk the other elf into being allowed to leave the room. I had no idea how to approach this situation aside from explicitly telling them "you have to make three successful skill checks with these skills". What would it look like to have someone grab a musical instrument and sing something in a basement while being told they can't leave? I just let them leave the room if the Barding noble made one successful Awe roll in the end. I think I need a lot of pointers on successfully running social interactions...

Finally, the Fellowship Phase undertakings seemed to not offer that many options to the players. They made their way south to the woodman territory, to give them the hermit's axe head. This gave them sanctuary automatically, so they didn't need to spend an action for that. Out of remaining actions, the only two viable choices were patron and lowering their Shadow rating. One character was woodmen herself, so she took a patron. Elf and Barding characters decided to lower their Shadow rating. The Elf failed both song rolls (eye of Sauron both times...) which, combined with the fact she wasn't even too keen on taking that action but just chose it due to lack of other options, felt particularly like a lot of wasted time.

All in all, there are some sore points but then, isn't that the case with every RPG system? We're reasonably pleased with everything that went down so we'll see how the next adventure goes. My intention is to slowly start transitioning to Darkening of Mirkwood during the second half of the Tales from the Wild - wish me luck!

And sorry about the wall of text :D

zedturtle
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Re: [Actual Play] Tales from the Wild experiences and questi

Post by zedturtle » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:35 am

Ok, this might not be in-depth as I would wish, but I'm going to try and answer some of your concerns.

One important thing that I didn't see get mentioned is using Traits to automatically succeed at actions. This is critical, especially for Encounters with low Tolerance. It can also be a way for you as Loremaster to judge when to call for rolls, True-hearted, Merry, Curious and Clever folks don't need to make so many Courtesy rolls as those who are Secretive, Stern, Suspicious, Vengeful or Wrathful. Also, make sure you are doing preliminary rolls and allowing Trait use for that as well... those bonus dice can then be spent on the Tasks that matter.

I would encourage you to do things like introduce the castle and then turn to your wife and say something like "Your character knows a lot of Mirkwood-lore; what is this castle and how long has been overrun by spiders?" Of course, some folks don't like being put on the spot like that, so maybe you can anticipate things and work something out ahead of time.

As for Lindar, those are three skills that can be used to convince him... and they can be done in any combination. Again, Traits are your friends when a simple success is all that's needed. Also, remember that you're in charge. If you've got something you want them to see upstairs, allow Lindar to relent.

As for the Travel rules, there is clearly the anticipation that roles might not be covered (since a Sauron on one table means 'role not taken'). It just represents the dangers faced by a small group in travelling. But also a small group is less likely to generate Hazards. Of course, a NPC can help out... it might be a while before the heroes meet Banna, but if she travels with them for a while (or meets them early) it might not go amiss.

Remember Fellowship Phases are about down-time and improvement, as much as the Undertakings. Also, it seems like you might not have Heart of the Wild... that has a number of specific Undertakings, like visiting Wuduseld, patrolling the forest, going on a great hunt, competing on the Field of Heroes or visiting the King-stone that would have given them a lot more options.

Hope this helps!
Jacob Rodgers, occasional nitwit.

This space intentionally blank.

Dawngreeter
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:48 am

Re: [Actual Play] Tales from the Wild experiences and questi

Post by Dawngreeter » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:31 pm

Traits for encounters... yes, I believe we completely forgot about those. I'll try to have everyone keep an eye on their traits for the next adventure, perhaps make cue cards or some such. Can't believe we missed that, it seems like such an obvious thing to do. And your suggestion about Mirkwood-lore is spot-on! Very nice way to make a player feel valuable for having a certain lore.

You are right that I don't have Heart of the Wild. It's more an issue of not having the time to actually read it so far. Looks like getting it soon would pay off.

Anywho, thanks for a fast reply! A lot of very useful tips, I'm sure my group will benefit greatly :D

Stormcrow
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Re: [Actual Play] Tales from the Wild experiences and questi

Post by Stormcrow » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:46 pm

Dawngreeter wrote:My wife played an Elf and she felt slightly annoyed that the fact her character had spent past 250 years living in Mirkwood accounted for very little and she seemed as clueless as a Barding who hardly set foot in the forest. This was mostly brought to surface by the fact there was an ancient fortress some five days travel away from the elven city that she had no idea existed. She felt that was practically their back yard, and located very close to the elf path. In hindsight, I probably should have let her roll something to see if she actually did know about it on account of her having Mirkwood-lore, but it didn't occur to me right that moment and she didn't explicitly invoke it to remind me. So, lesson learned.
With any relevant trait, a player may invoke an automatic action to succeed at a task that they themselves propose. Your wife could have said, "I want to know about that fortress, and my Elf has Mirkwood-lore, so I should know something about it." Your job then as Loremaster is to decide how much information an ordinary success would grant her.

Let's look at this in the formal rules for tasks (player-initiated actions). You wouldn't necessarily go through all this during play, but it's easy to see where the shortcuts come in once you understand the process.
  1. Statement of Intent.
    1. Describe the Task. Your wife says she wants to remember everything she knows about the fortress.
    2. Choose Ability. Your wife says she will use her Lore skill to come up with this information.
    3. Set Objective. Your wife says her Lore will tell her all that is commonly known by Elves of Mirkwood about the fortress.
  2. Setting the Difficulty. You, the Loremaster, decide that knowledge of the fortress isn't particularly common or obscure, so you set a moderate difficulty (TN 14).
  3. Apply a Trait or Virtue. Your wife points out that she has Mirkwood-lore, and calls for an automatic action, saying that knowledge of the fortress would be known to anyone who had studied Mirkwood. The other players, including you, agree.
  4. Consequences. No roll is necessary, since this is an automatic action. Your wife achieves an ordinary success. You tell her as much information as anyone achieving an ordinary success would know.
In play, this boils down to:

Wife: "I've got Mirkwood-lore, so I should know something about that fortress."
You: "You know <yadda yadda>..."
Another issue came up due to the fact that we have just three players. Travel mechanics assume at least four companions to fill the four basic roles. In this instance, I went with an NPC (Baldor) acting as a travel guide but that won't work for the next adventure. Does anyone have a good solution for this?
Travel in the Wild can be dangerous; get used to it! Someone can spend a point of Hope to take over another role during a hazard. Or, if no one does so, the hazard's consequences take effect automatically.
Encounters are something we're still not comfortable with. There are specific skills that should be used which players still aren't familiar with and the introduction-interaction stages don't seem to come naturally.
I agree. I could never get players comfortable with, "Hang on! You have to introduce yourself first. You can't just start talking."

If your players insist on skipping introductions, or in speaking up when someone else is the spokesman, try treating it as an automatic failure of an introduction if the Loremaster character cares about that sort of thing, and count it against the Tolerance of the encounter.

If players try to bulldoze past moments that really should be handled by rolls, ask them, "Are you calling for a <skill> task here?" Be sure to keep the distinction between tasks and tests clear; don't just say "check" or "roll." It's the players who are driving the conversation, not you; make it clear that your characters aren't just going to give them what they want for free.

Players also tend not to pause before an encounter to tell you what they plan to achieve in it. You really have to gather this from whatever hints they drop. As soon as they see your character they're going to just start talking. Be ready for this, construct the dynamics of the encounter in your head at once, and don't stop the group to force them to think about the encounter rules. Players usually don't like this.

Finally, don't use the encounter rules unless the players plan to achieve more than a single, simple goal. If there's no negotiation involved, it's not worthy of an encounter. Getting directions from a passerby is not an encounter. Haggling with a merchant to get information about a customer, while also getting a good price, is an encounter. Some people will tell you only to use encounters when the situation is momentous or the Loremaster character is important. I disagree: use encounters when the players want to talk to anyone in a way that will require more than a single roll to achieve their goal.
It turns out two out of three characters don't have Courtesy so that almost means that they can't participate in any of the interactions.
People with unrefined manners find other ways to talk to people. They can intimidate, they can impress, they can inspire, they can mystify, they can amuse. The rules for encounters only give guidelines for which skills to use; players can use any skill they deem relevant. It's their choice. Encounter skills are tasks, not tests.

Also be wary of the encounters written in the published adventures. They tend to be a bit inflexible as written. Let the players use their imaginations; don't force them to follow the text.
Finally, the Fellowship Phase undertakings seemed to not offer that many options to the players.
The Fellowship Phase is a chance for the players to take control of what's going on around their characters. It's more than just spending points and performing an undertaking. Each player gets a turn to tell everything a character does during his time away from adventures, and, if they have any Standing, how they interact with their homelands' affairs. As long as their story fits their characters' situations, they can come up with practically anything. Tell them to be creative. Let them combine their story with their spending of Advancement Points and Experience Points and with their chosen undertaking, turning it into a more satisfying period. If all you do is spend points and sing songs in the forest for a few weeks, that's missing the point of the Fellowship Phase. The phase should feel like a true pause in adventuring, not just a pit stop in the middle of an adventure.

Majestic
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Re: [Actual Play] Tales from the Wild experiences and questi

Post by Majestic » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:33 pm

Though I'm a very experienced GM as well, I found that I wasn't emphasizing Traits enough when I started, either.

If you look at the Resources here, you'll find there's an entire, multi-page document on 'Trait Usage' that was compiled based on lots of feedback from the entire TOR community. It can really help you wrap your head around the concept (as does Stormcrow's excellent summary of how your wife could have used Mirkwood-lore to get an automatic success regarding the tower).

I've now gone so far as to make a two-page sheet (encased in hard plastic sleeve protector) with all of my PCs Traits, so that I as LM have them close at hand, to be able to easily identify and help remind them. In addition to that, I printed up 4x6 notecards (which was surprisingly easy to do on my printer) with their individual Traits, including short summaries of each one (taken right from the rules). Just as an example, here's one of our Mirkwood Elves (so you can see how such an aid could help with your wife's character):

Falandor
Elves of Mirkwood / Scholar
Specialties
Elven-lore: The memory of three ages of the world, lore preserves recollections of deeds and places lost to the Old lore of other races. Also versed in the Ancient Tongue of the Elves beyond the Sea.
Mirkwood-lore: May call upon knowledge of Mirkwood when planning to traverse it as part of a journey.
Rhymes of Lore: Brief compositions in verse created by many cultures to remember significant facts from ancient history. Knowledge of them can supplement a test of Lore, but is used especially in conjunction with any Custom skill (Courtesy, Song or Riddle).
Distinctive Features
Clever: Ingenious and smart, quick to learn and able to make intuitive leaps.
Swift: Moves swiftly, and quick to take action.

Once you get the hang of Traits, it can really help move the story along better, with the distintive things about each individual character really getting a chance to shine through!

As far as telling them what they can and can't do, I'd be hesitant to outright dictate things, but I also understand your hesitance to improvise too much and get way off track. For Encounters, I'd just let your players know (up front), the way Encounters typically go. Point out that - in Middle-earth - it pretty much works like this:

- The characters introduce themselves, often somewhat formally, before they get into conversation.

- The group will decide on having one spokesman, or have everyone pitching in with the interaction/conversation (some people they meet may prefer one way over another, and may react accordingly).

Most of the published adventures often don't limit the PCs to just Courtesy. They'll often give a range of skills that can be used, and my characters tend to pipe up with what they're good at. Most of the time this works great, though there are times where I might hint that one skill or another might not be a smart way to go ("this Elf is thousands of years old, and you get the impression that trying to overwhelm her with Awe might be sort of foolish").

As was pointed out, don't forget to use those Preliminary Rolls (which happen before Encounters, Combat, and Journeys). Remember also that any player can bequeath a die to another person, just before they roll. For instance, right before your Barding makes that Courtesy task or test, one of those other PCs (that don't have Courtesy, but might have gained a bonus die from their Inspire Preliminary Roll) could hand their bonus die to the Barding, to improve the group's chances of succeeding at the Encounter.

It sounds like you're doing well so far, and just need to fine-tune a few little things to have everything running smoothly! :)
Tale of Years for a second, lower-level group (in the same campaign).

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