Hello! and advice for new Loremaster?

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Earendil
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Hello! and advice for new Loremaster?

Post by Earendil » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:57 am

Hello everybody!

I'm a long-time roleplayer and GM, and I've been reading this forum for months but have just joined up.

Tomorrow, if everything goes according to plan, I'll be running The One Ring for the first time. I have all the books (except Ruins of the North, which I might wait and buy from my FLGS when it's available). Any advice anyone has will be gratefully received!

I've recommended to the players that their Endurance should be about 12-15 higher than their starting Fatigue, so they can take 3 or 4 blows before becoming Weary. Is that a sensible number, or is my own inexperience causing me to give them bad advice?

I'm going to start with The Marsh-Bell, setting it in summer 2946, with a few changes: it makes no sense to me that Balin and Oin would try an untested and potentially lethal route without even taking any help along, while on a mission to carry a message and a valuable gift for the Lord of the Eagles. So I'm going to leave out the bit with the jewel, unless I can think of another reason to include it, and say their mission was simply to check out the old road. And I'll give them a dwarf guard or two. Maybe one got killed by the troll. Oh, and I might make the troll a Marsh-Ogre instead (from the Lake-Town sourcebook). It will be wounded, and will also be down about one-third of its Endurance and Hate, so hopefully it should be manageable.

Comments? Suggestions? Insults? ;)

jacksarge
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Re: Hello! and advice for new Loremaster?

Post by jacksarge » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:09 am

I like your ideas for tweaking the scenario, makes sense to me. Even with the troll significantly weakened, I found that my players were very challenged by it. I think that's a good thing in your first adventure, the players need to know how dangerous a place Middle Earth can be. As for the fatigue - endurance thing, I think others may be able to advise you better, and it will depend on the play style of the character. They might be able to take 3 or 4 blows as you say, but what about piercing blows? Having little armour reduces your chances of fending off wounds...
Last edited by jacksarge on Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

zedturtle
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Re: Hello! and advice for new Loremaster?

Post by zedturtle » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:11 am

Welcome Earendil!

If you've been lurking for a long time, you know my deal. (If not, check out my sig for an adventure designed to teach the rules, and other possibly helpful stuff.)

I think the margin you've suggested is very good for most heroes, but of course there are circumstances where other values might be better (Beornings with Great Strength, Dwarves, etc.)

Be wary of the troll (or Marsh-Ogre as it might be)... it seems to be a very finicky combat, especially since the players will just be figuring out the combat system and what works best for them. Since you've got the resources, you might consider sending a wave of Forest Goblins against them earlier in the adventure; it will teach them how the Stance system works with less dire consequences if it takes a round or three to figure it all out.
Jacob Rodgers, occasional nitwit.

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Earendil
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Re: Hello! and advice for new Loremaster?

Post by Earendil » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:55 am

zedturtle wrote:Welcome Earendil!

If you've been lurking for a long time, you know my deal. (If not, check out my sig for an adventure designed to teach the rules, and other possibly helpful stuff.)
Thanks, zedturtle. :D I have read your adventure, and I liked it, but I'm not planning to use it for now, because I think it fits in better with Darkening of Mirkwood than with the plans I have (Tales From Wilderland and maybe some of Ruins of the North, once I get it and have a look at it). I'm not confident about running a campaign as involved as Darkening for the time being, and I'm also not sure how keen my players would be! But I may well use it later, especially if/when I run a second campaign.
I think the margin you've suggested is very good for most heroes, but of course there are circumstances where other values might be better (Beornings with Great Strength, Dwarves, etc.)
There is a dwarf in the party, but I'm not sure what difference that makes. Am I missing something? Of course he can wear heavier armour etc. but I still think the gap between his starting fatigue and Endurance should be the same.
Be wary of the troll (or Marsh-Ogre as it might be)... it seems to be a very finicky combat, especially since the players will just be figuring out the combat system and what works best for them. Since you've got the resources, you might consider sending a wave of Forest Goblins against them earlier in the adventure; it will teach them how the Stance system works with less dire consequences if it takes a round or three to figure it all out.
That's a nice idea, using Forest Goblins instead. But I don't know how many would be appropriate. I went for a Marsh Ogre because it's in the marshes so it makes more sense than a troll, and its statistics aren't too different from the troll so I hope it should be a comparable difficulty.
Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima!

... but you can call me Mark.

Earendil
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Re: Hello! and advice for new Loremaster?

Post by Earendil » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:04 am

jacksarge wrote:I like your ideas for tweaking the scenario, makes sense to me. Even with the troll significantly weakened, I found that my players were very challenged by it. I think that's a good thing in your first adventure, the players need to know how dangerous a place Middle Earth can be. As for the fatigue - endurance thing, I think others may be able to advise you better, and it will depend on the play style of the character. They might be able to take 3 or 4 blows as you say, but what about piercing blows? Having little armour reduces your chances of fending off wounds...
Thanks, jacksarge. 8-) I hadn't considered how important the ability to resist piercing blows might be. We made up characters last week and all the players have gone for leather shirts, caps of iron & leather, and bucklers -- except the dwarf, who's taken a coat of mail but is otherwise the same. I might suggest that at least one of them loses the cap and takes better armour instead before we start (an increase of 2 in fatigue might be well worth it). I was already going to suggest someone might want to upgrade to a better shield.
Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima!

... but you can call me Mark.

zedturtle
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Re: Hello! and advice for new Loremaster?

Post by zedturtle » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:20 am

Earendil wrote:Thanks, zedturtle. :D I have read your adventure, and I liked it, but I'm not planning to use it for now, because I think it fits in better with Darkening of Mirkwood than with the plans I have (Tales From Wilderland and maybe some of Ruins of the North, once I get it and have a look at it). I'm not confident about running a campaign as involved as Darkening for the time being, and I'm also not sure how keen my players would be! But I may well use it later, especially if/when I run a second campaign.
Cool. Thanks for the feedback, and I didn't mean to guilt you into saying anything.
There is a dwarf in the party, but I'm not sure what difference that makes. Am I missing something? Of course he can wear heavier armour etc. but I still think the gap between his starting fatigue and Endurance should be the same.
Resilience is a factor, but the other way a dwarf can go is to resign themselves to being Weary a good chunk of the time and rely on their heavier armour and good Parry scores to be a front-line fighter. Going that route works best with a Weapon Skill of 3, of course.

And putting trust in your friends, as you will often end up unconscious.
That's a nice idea, using Forest Goblins instead. But I don't know how many would be appropriate. I went for a Marsh Ogre because it's in the marshes so it makes more sense than a troll, and its statistics aren't too different from the troll so I hope it should be a comparable difficulty.
If you did elect to use only Forest Goblins, then I would have them attack in waves (with the first wave being as many as you have heroes). Then you could adjust subsequent waves to how their heroes are handling combat.

If you do both Forest Goblins and the Marsh Ogre, then just have as many Forest Goblins as you have heroes and give them at least a short rest before they encounter the Marsh Ogre... remember there's a chance that they'll escape and never have to fight it. Going this route, the FGs are a practise enemy... they're really there just so the heroes can figure out what Stance works best for their combat capabilities, and maybe for you to get a chance to do some of the non-attack options (i.e. tell them that they can Intimidate Foe and some of the goblins might run away, etc.).
Jacob Rodgers, occasional nitwit.

This space intentionally blank.

Falenthal
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Re: Hello! and advice for new Loremaster?

Post by Falenthal » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:35 am

In my experience, The Marsh Bell is not the best option for a first adventure for the reasons you state. But go for it, it's also not a bad one.
I used a Marsh-Ogre, Wounded, but with almost full health and Hate. My players killed it in two rounds without receiveing a single blow. :shock:

As for the Enduance/Fatigue gap, I think 12-15 is ok. Players can decide to change their equipment in their first Fellowship Phase if needed, so they can tinker with different configurations in the first adventures if they feel the need to.

jacksarge
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Re: Hello! and advice for new Loremaster?

Post by jacksarge » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:41 am

Thanks, jacksarge. 8-) I hadn't considered how important the ability to resist piercing blows might be. We made up characters last week and all the players have gone for leather shirts, caps of iron & leather, and bucklers -- except the dwarf, who's taken a coat of mail but is otherwise the same. I might suggest that at least one of them loses the cap and takes better armour instead before we start (an increase of 2 in fatigue might be well worth it). I was already going to suggest someone might want to upgrade to a better shield.
When our group started out the dwarf was definitely the "tank" & still is- able to absorb those piercing blows, but also in forward stance, to deliver damage more frequently than his companions. Another thing to consider are the special aspects of each stance, for instance the dwarf in forward can attempt to "intimidate foe", and it may be worth checking that your dwarf player is up for this play style and happy to upgrade their awe skill. The group I run has, quite stereotypically, a dwarf up front and the elf in rearward, with other party members "floating" between the various stances depending on the situation.

Earendil
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Re: Hello! and advice for new Loremaster?

Post by Earendil » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:25 pm

zedturtle wrote:Cool. Thanks for the feedback, and I didn't mean to guilt you into saying anything.
Don't worry, no guilt! :D I had already decided to start with The Marsh-Bell, then use Don't Leave the Path to get the heroes across Mirkwood for the following scenarios, so Theft of the Moon didn't make sense as an opening scenario for me. It is possible I'll include it later (after Kinstrife & Dark Tidings), but I actually think it would make a good introductory scenario for Darkening of Mirkwood.
If you did elect to use only Forest Goblins, then I would have them attack in waves (with the first wave being as many as you have heroes). Then you could adjust subsequent waves to how their heroes are handling combat.

If you do both Forest Goblins and the Marsh Ogre, then just have as many Forest Goblins as you have heroes and give them at least a short rest before they encounter the Marsh Ogre... remember there's a chance that they'll escape and never have to fight it. Going this route, the FGs are a practise enemy... they're really there just so the heroes can figure out what Stance works best for their combat capabilities, and maybe for you to get a chance to do some of the non-attack options (i.e. tell them that they can Intimidate Foe and some of the goblins might run away, etc.).
That is a good idea, thanks! It depends how long Galion follows/accompanies the heroes; I can't see him and his elves just sitting back while the party fights goblins, and I don't want to complicate things by having them involved in the fight. But if the PCs annoy him and he leaves, I might well include a goblin attack.

I think I'll still include the Marsh-Ogre either way. I'll start it at 55 Endurance, and if it seems they're having too easy or difficult a time of it, I'll cheat and adjust it up or down. :twisted:

Thanks to the others who've commented too. Any more comments are very welcome!
Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima!

... but you can call me Mark.

Blubbo Baggins
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Re: Hello! and advice for new Loremaster?

Post by Blubbo Baggins » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:13 pm

I ran a one-shot of the Marsh Bell for all new players (using the pre-generated PCs by C7). They had absolutely no trouble with the Troll (as written) - probably took it out in 2 rounds with very minimal End loss.

The thing is, with just one Troll, it can only go after 1 PC at a time. If you have 5 PCs, there is a good chance it will only last 2-3 rounds as long as the dice aren't cursed. And for those PCs who take a beating... DON'T forget their options to be knocked back! It not only saves that PC the End loss, but often another PC will use Defensive to protect that companion, or will take another action to get the Troll to change targets.

The bigger issue with the Marsh Bell, imho, is the Mewlips Lair. If handled poorly the PCs could simply fail on the mission, or worse, it could be a TPK. When I played the scenario for the very first time in a group, we did succeed, but one PC got rushed, overwhelmed, and killed before we could do anything to help (we were running away and he got caught). So that is the area to be wary of.... I have never felt like the wounded Troll was a big issue.

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